OAL does it matter too much?

[TBOATS]

Hi I have been in hospital for past year due to cancer and was wondering I had just started to reload 45 Colt before all this happened and I am trying to reload with a Lee pistol loader and I can’t seem to get the OAL exactly at 1.60. I am going to use titegroup or black powder, I have seen some posts that didn’t worry about OAL too much. I don’t want to put too much pressure in a conversion cylinder that I have( Kirst conversion) , any info would be appreciated. I really hate to have to give up shooting my colts and Remingtons cause I can’t get the ammo or it’s too much. Thanks for your help.

 

[EricBu]

If you're loading a bullet that has a cannelure or a crimp groove, then that's where you want to crimp it. OAL can't exceed the maximum SAAMI for the cartridge without risking issues with the cylinder functioning on 45 Colt, but you don't need to be ***exactly** at what your load data says, you have some wiggle room there, just shoot for the cannelure. If you're loading coated cast, don't mix up the empty lube groove with the crimp groove. Most of the time, whatever data you're using, say for a 250 RNFP, if it gives a OAL, then when you seat the bullet, you should be within a couple tenths of that OAL when you seat it to that crimp groove, and when you crimp it, you'll be there.

 

[TBOATS]

Thanks for that , really appreciate the info. Going to load tomorrow shoot Saturday with any luck I’ll post how it worked out.

 

[deadeye dick]

First, Hope you are well now. Been there. That said, why would you use black powder in a cartrige gun? Crimp to the groove as said above.

 

[N555]

To me COAL is just a suggestion.
Load them how your gun likes them.
I load my handgun ammo to be as long as the gun will allow for cycling and chambering through the my gun or guns in that caliber. Or I'll let the crimp the cannalure determine length.
For example my ruger only 44mag loads are way over book COAL, they won't fit in anything else.

 

[PWC]

Too long, not so much as long as it fits and cylinder turns with no bullet movement under recoil. (Reason For crimp)

Too short will increase pressure. Again reason for crimp to keep bullet from moving deeper under recoil

+ / - .003 not to worry as long as cylinder rotates.

 

[EricBu]

First, Hope you are well now. Been there. That said, why would you use black powder in a cartrige gun? Crimp to the groove as said above.

Lots and lots of people run smokemore in these classic cartridges. They were made for it.

 

[Soonerpesek]

smokemore

...........................I like that............................

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

If by Lee pistol loader you mean the whack-a-mole Lee Classic Loader, the seating die is adjustable. Screw the little tang that pushes on the bullet out or in to change the seating depth. Like everyone else said, close to the crimp groove is close enough as long as it fits and the cylinder turns.

 

[RowdyReid]

SAAMI should state a +/- specification for OAL for the application. Keep in mind that black powder should be compressed in the cartridge as well.

SAAMI Standards – SAAMI

 

[JayZee]

I see the consesus of loading longer rather than short is agreed up for pistols. I do the same with all my bulk 9mm, I just avoid hitting the minimums and make sure it feeds.

 

[EricBu]

I see the consesus of loading longer rather than short is agreed up for pistols. I do the same with all my bulk 9mm, I just avoid hitting the minimums and make sure it feeds.

Nah, this is not the case for these old revolver cartridges, especially if you're loading BP. We don't like air gaps. For a modern rimless cartridge using a taper crimp, sure....long is better than too short. But classic wheel guns...seat to crimp groove, and roll crimp.

 

[.38 Special]

I don't recall the last time I loaded .45 Colt with bullets that didn't have crimp grooves. It may never have happened. And I always crimp .45 Colt at the crimp groove.

As for blackpowder - I love "smokemore" and intend to steal the word! - when done correctly in the old Colt it offers excellent accuracy and perhaps more velocity than any SAAMI smokeless load. It is one of the few instances where blackpowder actually offers objectively better performance compared with smokeless.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Welcome to The Survivor's Club.
Enjoy the rest of your hopefully very LONG life.
Air gaps in black powder is bad juju. Converting degflagration to detonation. Could be bad, could be very bad, could be a fizzle and pop. Maybe some folks load that way in modern guns and it's no problem but in a Kirst conversion I wouldn't take the chance. No sense risking damage to a gun or yourself.

 

[P Flados]

Titegroup in a 45 Colt will have lots of air space.

The higher the airspace percentage, the less you need to worry about a short AOL causing a pressure increase. Sort AOLs are more of a problem in something like the 9mm or 40.

As a warning, work out a very positive method of avoiding a double charge with Titegroup. This is a combination that makes seeing a double charge hard. A double charge with 45 Colt in anything than less than the big Rugers is asking for trouble.

 

[JayZee]

Nah, this is not the case for these old revolver cartridges, especially if you're loading BP. We don't like air gaps. For a modern rimless cartridge using a taper crimp, sure....long is better than too short. But classic wheel guns...seat to crimp groove, and roll crimp.

Gotcha, I apologize to OP and everyone I misunderstood, carry on!

 

[Blue68f100]

I don't know how your measuring your OAL, but use the seat stem form your die to measure with. You seating the bullet where the seating stem contacts the ogive. Bullets vary 0.005"+ generally. So if your with in the error your fine. Like already said crimp in the cannelure and call it good. I haven't measured OAL in any round for decades that had a crimp groove.

 

[gwpercle]

In revolver ammo you want to use a bullet with a crimp groove ( cast lead type) or a cannelure (jacketed type) and the OAL will be determined by the crimp groove/cannelure location .
You want to roll crimp into the crimp groove ... this aides powder burn and stops bullets from pulling out the case under recoil ( it holds them in place)
Check a dummy round (no powder-no primer) and make sure the bullet does not project beyond the cylinder face ... if it doesn't ... you are good and you don't need to measure anything .
You can buy 45 Colt bullets and the crimp groove will be in the correct place .
The problem comes when you buy say 45 ACP bullets and try to load them into 45 Colt case ...
it can be done but you have to do some tricky stuff to pull it off and the accuracy might be poor .
My advice ...Buy the Correct Bullet and Seat to and roll crimp into the bullets Crimp Groove.

To answer your question ... book OAL doesn't matter that much ... useing the correct bullet and crimping the bullet in the crimp groove does .
Gary

 

[.308 Norma]

A double charge with 45 Colt in anything than less than the big Rugers is asking for trouble.

I wouldn't want to put a double charge of Bullseye (or any other powder for that matter) in my 45 Colt, and my 45 Colt IS a "big Ruger." I don't think "double charges" of powder are what's meant by "Ruger and Contender Only" loads in the loading manuals.

 

[EricBu]

Titegroup in a 45 Colt will have lots of air space.

The higher the airspace percentage, the less you need to worry about a short AOL causing a pressure increase. Sort AOLs are more of a problem in something like the 9mm or 40.

As a warning, work out a very positive method of avoiding a double charge with Titegroup. This is a combination that makes seeing a double charge hard. A double charge with 45 Colt in anything than less than the big Rugers is asking for trouble.

TiteGroup is a smokeless powder, completely different animal than Blackpowder. TiteGroup isn't case position sensitive and is a great 45 Colt SMOKELESS powder, because you can use a tiny tiny bit to get those old cowboy pressures, and it's fine with a lot of case space. The warning about air space everybody is referring to is for BLACKPOWDER, which is a different beast entirely, and does not tolerate empty case space well...at all really. Apples and Oranges. BTW, I roll my own 45 Colt with both, though smokemore a lot less than I use too because it's gotten very hard to come by. TG is one of my absolute favorite 45 Colt powders.

 

[EricBu]

I wouldn't want to put a double charge of Bullseye (or any other powder for that matter) in my 45 Colt, and my 45 Colt IS a "big Ruger." I don't think "double charges" of powder are what's meant by "Ruger and Contender Only" loads in the loading manuals.

What's Keith's quote about Bullseye? "Bullseye is for men who know what they are about", or something like that. From the guy who loved it more than any other powder, and blew up more than one big revolver using it.