OAL Gauges-bullet comparators?

[Axis II]

Lump me in with the save your money group. I have one around here somewhere that was given to me years ago and I never use it. Everyone has made the reasoning why they are not that great pretty apparent. Here is what I do and for the most part I just seat for an OAL right from the manual. That said when the mood strikes I only worry about this with two bolt guns, a .223 Remington and a .308 Winchester. I fire a few cartridges in each rifle. My spent cases are reasonably what my chambers are. I set each case back about 0.002" making sure they chamber in their respective rifles. Then I drill out the primer pockets, as seen below:

I get a few of the bullets I plan to use and gently, very gently use my chamber and bolt to begin to seat the bullet, slowly closing the bolt. If one wants to go through the added effort they can strip the bolt of extractor and ejector. Open the bolt and use a cleaning rod from the bore to gently and slowly remove the cartridge, or if the bolt was left intact just slowly open the bolt and extract the cartridge. Measure the cartridge C.O.A.L. Typically I will run this five times and get an average. Then when seating I start .010 to .015 from where I was. The bullets are removed by using a cleaning rod through the oversize flash holes.

Actually one of my better shooting bolt guns in .308 Winchester has a throat which I would swear runs halfway to the muzzle and that rifle shoots great just using the load data C.O.A.L. When I was watching the bench rest guys and playing around with 6mm PPC I watched guys start a bullet in a charged round and literally use th bolt and chamber to seat their bullets. They shot with their bullets right on the lands. Personally my view is for me moving seating depth around never made much difference and if you are that concerned you may as well invest in a good decent concentricity gauge. One thing leading to another.....

Ron

couple of questions. you knew that was coming.

1) can I use a collet bullet puller to remove the bullet from the case so I don't have to drill the case and use a rod? (don't own a drill press)
2) are you using a bullet comparator to measure the OAL? I cant use the book OAL as it puts me into the lands or I would just run that data.

 

[Reloadron]

1) can I use a collet bullet puller to remove the bullet from the case so I don't have to drill the case and use a rod? (don't own a drill press)
2) are you using a bullet comparator to measure the OAL? I cant use the book OAL as it puts me into the lands or I would just run that data.

Absolutely you can use a collet puller. I have an RCBS collet puller and never thought to use that or my kinetic puller. Go figure?

As to #2 yes, I used the RCBS Precison Mic but guess I could have used the Hornady stuff. All I cared about was C.O.A.L. for any given bullet, as I said, I never really got overly into it. That is peculiar about you using hand load data and being too long. Have any problems with factory ammunition chambering?

Ron

 

[Axis II]

Absolutely you can use a collet puller. I have an RCBS collet puller and never thought to use that or my kinetic puller. Go figure?

As to #2 yes, I used the RCBS Precison Mic but guess I could have used the Hornady stuff. All I cared about was C.O.A.L. for any given bullet, as I said, I never really got overly into it. That is peculiar about you using hand load data and being too long. Have any problems with factory ammunition chambering?

Ron

what's odd is the hornady manual says 2.250 for the 55gr v max but a factory v max round is around 2.230 maybe lower. I have to be at 2.225-2.230 or it gets hard to chamber and leaves scratches all over the bullets when I color them. 55gr SP i also have to seat them a little lower than the canellure because they hit what I'm assuming is the rifling. I color the bullet all black and then chamber it and its a little right but the bolt will lock and then its tight unloading it and there is marker rubbed off in lines. I ran into this with some FMJ factory ammo the bolt was very, very hard to close and someone called cease fire so I went to unload the round and I couldn't get the bolt to open at all and had to lay the rifle down and slap the bolt up and back. an "old timer" at the range said that rounds hitting the lands get rid of them. I said pssh I'm not throwing away 40rounds of ammo i just bought-this was before I knew what he was talking about. I sent the rifle to savage and they said they needed to polish the bore/throat and something else because they too had the same issue. I haven't shot factory stuff through it since I began reloading so not sure it will still do that again. the girl said it took 2 trips to the range to test it but should be okay.

 

[grandpawj]

Thanks Ron, I am beginning to get the picture. I invested in an RCBS Precision Mic for the 223 Rem and it just seemed too complicated to put into practical use.

 

[fguffey]

how do you make sure the case is seated tight against the chamber i guess keeping the headspace tight?

ohihunter2014, keeping the case against the shoulder of the chamber is not a problem. Again, I am the fan of all the bullet hold I can get. It is possible to measure the effort required to seat a pullet; going the other way it is possible to measure bullet hold going the other way. Bullet hold can be 45 pounds, when the reloader pushes the bullet out of the case from the rear the case is seated against the shoulder of the chamber.

It is awkward to measure bullet hold when pulling bullets; but when the flash hole/primer pocket is drilled out it becomes a matter of pushing the bullet out.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Actually one of my better shooting bolt guns in .308 Winchester has a throat which I would swear runs halfway to the muzzle and that rifle shoots great just using the load data C.O.A.L.

A man built 4 magnificent rifles, he made the reamer cut the chamber etc.. etc. When finish one of the rifles came back; it just would not shoot? He took the rifle to other smiths in an effort to determine why 4 rifles with the same receivers, barrels and stocks would not shoot close to the same. He contacted me and I said "I do not know", then he asked me where would I start. I informed him I would go straight to drilling out the primer pocket/flash hole on 10 cases and then determine the length of the chamber from the rifling to the bolt face.

The rifle was a wildcat with formed cases and he was not interested in sacrificing 10 perfectly formed cases so he said nothing but he went to the Internet looking for other methods and techniques. Sure enough he found the stick method and then called me with the results. He did not understand the results of the stick method and wanted me to interpret the results; he wanted to bring his rifle and his stick over. I made it clear he would be wasting a trip if he thought I was going to use a stick, I asked him to measure the width of the pencil mark etc.

He came over with the cases and I started drilling; when finished I used a 7mm Remington sizing die to size the necks and then seated different weight bullets, the heaviest bullet I has was 170 grain. I removed the bolt and then chambered one of the test cases and started pushing the bullet, the bullet came out of the case and skidded through the throat and finally came to stop at the rifling. He wanted to know how that could happen and I had to say; "I do not know" but I suspect someone was reading about Weatherby and free bore and then got carried away.

We went to his place and loaded 110 rounds with different length bullets and different powder charges and then we went to the range. Out of the 110 rounds we loaded in groups of 5 only one of group was accurate. When it comes to the length of the chamber I measure and I doubt a rifle can be accurate with a free bore that runs half way up the barrel. On the other hand I am the fan of the running start; I want my bullets to have that jump but when the throat is long I have to be conserved with gas passing the bullet and wonder what happens to the bullet when it hits the rifling and starts spinning.

F. Guffey