Obama's kids have armed guards at their school

[9MMare]

When your first line of defense is to call 911 and wait for the good guy with a gun to come from somewhere else and save you, immediately stopping violent attackers can be pretty difficult.

Yes thank you. That is my point.

Again, no one said drop 'active shooter protocol,' just that "MORE" of it wont stop mass shooting since one classroom of kids...as seen in CT...IS a mass shooting.

So trying to sell that to the American public as a 'solution' is disingenuous at best because it raises hopes that cannot be fulfilled. Yes, it will save lives, but no, it wont stop mass shootings in schools.

And schools ALREADY HAVE THIS.

 

[9MMare]

a) not wanting to think about something won't change a damn thing
b) if we don't mind kids being scared of cops or TSA, why then trained teachers with guns?

You're preaching to the choir here. However it doesnt change the fact that there will be many many iwth that mindset and it will be an obstacle.

 

[Warp]

Yes thank you. That is my point.

Again, no one said drop 'active shooter protocol,' just that "MORE" of it wont stop mass shooting since one classroom of kids...as seen in CT...IS a mass shooting.

So trying to sell that to the American public as a 'solution' is disingenuous at best because it raises hopes that cannot be fulfilled. Yes, it will save lives, but no, it wont stop mass shootings in schools.

And schools ALREADY HAVE THIS.

On site armed response ready for immediate action is beneficial.

Continuing to insist otherwise is a sign of psychosis if you ask me.

 

[9MMare]

On site armed response ready for immediate action is beneficial.

Continuing to insist otherwise is a sign of psychosis if you ask me.

I dont think anyone has suggested otherwise...however 'active shooter protocol' is not that.

That is just armed guards or cops on school property. And that still wouldnt (didnt) stop the CT shooting. THere was a guard, I dont know if he was armed but the shooter knew about him and just went around him.

What people question is the cost and effectiveness in the face of the rarity of the events.

 

[Warp]

I dont think anyone has suggested otherwise...however 'active shooter protocol' is not that.

That is just armed guards or cops on school property. And that still wouldnt (didnt) stop the CT shooting. THere was a guard, I dont know if he was armed but the shooter knew about him and just went around him.

What people question is the cost and effectiveness in the face of the rarity of the events.

First you say that armed on site response didn't stop the CT shooting

Then you say there was only one guard and you don't know if he was armed.

huh

Maybe you shouldn't proclaim that an armed guard was at Sandy Hook and failed to stop, or limit, the tragedy since you yourself claim that you don't have the information necessary to make that statement

 

[Walkalong]

I deleted some posts about religion. We do not do religion here, simply because it causes problems. If you wish to discuss how religion does or does not affect shootings in America, there are other places to do that. Thanks.

 

[Alaska444]

I never said that CC wasnt part of the solution. And everyone is considering CC in schools, Utah notwithstanding (as it does not reflect a very common demographic for the rest of the country, as I pointed out).

I said that your example of Utah is not indicative of the norm...and it does NOT have a crime rate, gangs, suicides as high as MANY other states. Who knows about divorce...you'd have to be a sad woman to get involved in multiple marriage to begin with.

And no one is even arguing against giving teachers/staff the option to CC. However once parents learn of it....there will be push back from anti-gun parents.

Which demographic is that? Did you know that Hawaii allows CCW in schools. How does that fit into a demographic model of this.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/hawaii.pdf

Now granted, Hawaii is a "May" Issue state with much to gain, but what about New Hampshire that also allows CCW in schools and is one of the only states that has constitutional carry? The only off limits place in NH is courts and jails.

http://godfatherpolitics.com/3386/nations-first-constitutional-carry-law-passes-new-hampshire-house/

How about Oregon which is one of the bastions of liberal philosophy that allows CCW in schools?

http://oregonfirearms.org/prohibitedplaces.html

So with all due respect, please delineate the demographics that would prevent all 49 states with current CCW permit laws and Illinois soon to join since their recent court case.

 

[9MMare]

First you say that armed on site response didn't stop the CT shooting

Then you say there was only one guard and you don't know if he was armed.

huh

Maybe you shouldn't proclaim that an armed guard was at Sandy Hook and failed to stop, or limit, the tragedy since you yourself claim that you don't have the information necessary to make that statement

An armed response did not STOP that shooter. Even if the guard had been armed....he was bypassed and the shooter killed a classroom of kids before he physically could have gotten there, armed or not.

And when armed response did show up...there was already a classroom full of dead kids.

So it didnt stop the shooting. It may have limited it, if the shooter killed himself if/when he knew such was on the way.

 

[Warp]

An armed response did not STOP that shooter. Even if the guard had been armed....he was bypassed and the shooter killed a classroom of kids before he physically could have gotten there, armed or not.

And when armed response did show up...there was already a classroom full of dead kids.

So it didnt stop the shooting. It may have limited it, if the shooter killed himself if/when he knew such was on the way.

Yes. It probably did. That's what happens, more often than not, it seems.

 

[9MMare]

Which demographic is that? Did you know that Hawaii allows CCW in schools. How does that fit into a demographic model of this.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/hawaii.pdf

Now granted, Hawaii is a "May" Issue state with much to gain, but what about New Hampshire that also allows CCW in schools and is one of the only states that has constitutional carry? The only off limits place in NH is courts and jails.

http://godfatherpolitics.com/3386/nations-first-constitutional-carry-law-passes-new-hampshire-house/

How about Oregon which is one of the bastions of liberal philosophy that allows CCW in schools?

http://oregonfirearms.org/prohibitedplaces.html

So with all due respect, please delineate the demographics that would prevent all 49 states with current CCW permit laws and Illinois soon to join since their recent court case.

OR JUST implemented their law, btw, And in HI it is difficult to get a cc permit. Also, OR is extremely conservative....like WA it just has a couple of highly populated liberal areas.

And it has to do with ratios of population density and numbers of urban, suburban, rural areas. Existing crime and violence...HI, UT, OR...not hotbeds of crime, period.

No one's saying it wont 'help.' But I say the jury is still out on whether it has even been TESTED in those low crime and lower population states.

You really have no proof at ALL that CC prevents school shootings. None at all...just conjecture. Not surprising, since you seem to feel the Bible contains actual *proof* of anything.

And who say anyone should or would prevent ANY of the states from allowing CC in schools?

 

[Warp]

No one's saying it wont 'help.' But I say the jury is still out on whether it has even been TESTED in those low crime and lower population states.

Entire states have had legal carry in schools for years and years.

 

[9MMare]

Entire states have had legal carry in schools for years and years.

And have they had any school shootings? I think that sort of info is helpful.

 

[Warp]

And have they had any school shootings? I think that sort of info is helpful.

It seems that the deterrence factor just might have some legitimacy to it, eh?

 

[Alaska444]

OR JUST implemented their law, btw, And in HI it is difficult to get a cc permit. Also, OR is extremely conservative....like WA it just has a couple of highly populated liberal areas.

And it has to do with ratios of population density and numbers of urban, suburban, rural areas. Existing crime and violence...HI, UT, OR...not hotbeds of crime, period.

No one's saying it wont 'help.' But I say the jury is still out on whether it has even been TESTED in those low crime and lower population states.

You really have no proof at ALL that CC prevents school shootings. None at all...just conjecture. Not surprising, since you seem to feel the Bible contains actual *proof* of anything.

And who say anyone should or would prevent ANY of the states from allowing CC in schools?

Please answer the question. You stated demographics would not allow implementation of CCW laws allowing carry in schools. You did not address that at all in your response.

Thank you.

 

[Ignition Override]

A supervisor at work said that he's not comfy with the idea of having armed teachers or staff. He has at least one child in school.
If my son were still in school, it would have been a possible deterrent for a nut to suspect that a staff member is armed.

The supervisor also said that he served over twenty years in the Army (US, or maybe Indonesia) and he likes guns.
The guy's comment an AR's .223 bullet's energy seemed out of context, unless he thought that the teachers could be armed with such rifles, because he stated that the round can injure more than one person at a time. He must be getting his so-called "news" from CNN, or worse.

 

[Alaska444]

It seems that the deterrence factor just might have some legitimacy to it, eh?

To answer your statement, absolutely yes. It is NOT Utah where you are hearing about mass school shootings. The last mall shooting in Utah in 2007 I believe was aborted by an off duty LEO carrying a handgun.

 

[Alaska444]

A supervisor at work said that he's not comfy with the idea of having armed teachers or staff. He has at least one child in school.
If my son were still in school, it would have been a possible deterrent for a nut to suspect that a staff member is armed.

The supervisor also said that he served over twenty years in the Army (US, or maybe Indonesia) and he likes guns.
The guy's comment about what an AR's .223 round can do seemed out of context, unless he thought that the teachers could be armed with such rifles, because he stated that the round can injure more than one person at a time. He must be getting his so-called "news" from CNN, or worse.

Once again, discuss the Israeli response to the Ma'alot killings in 1974. Since they armed the teachers, they have NOT had another mass killing. That is nearly 40 years of evidence of it's efficacy. Peru and the Philippines have similar data. Arming teachers has an abundance of evidence on its safety and efficacy.

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2012/12/15/against-monsters/

 

[Ignition Override]

Alaska444:
Thanks for the reminder about Israel. I knew nothing about the improved schools security results in other countries such as Peru and the Phillipines. That is news to me.

This is exactly what I'll mention to him, instead of being caught off guard by a random "armed people in schools" question.
But I anticipate that the skeptical or anti-gun people will respond with something like... "But the Israelis are surrounded by pockets of terrorists".
My counter-response might be "a guy wanting to kill children or adults must be stopped Now-there is no time to wait for the police". What is the best counter?

 

[9MMare]

Please answer the question. You stated demographics would not allow implementation of CCW laws allowing carry in schools. You did not address that at all in your response.

Thank you.

Yes, I did.

 

[9MMare]

It seems that the deterrence factor just might have some legitimacy to it, eh?

Keep trying

No one ever said it wasnt. I just said that it wouldnt stop a mass shooting.

You just recognized this fact with the CT shooting. Do you need additional help connecting the dots?

 

[Warp]

Keep trying

No one ever said it wasnt. I just said that it wouldnt stop a mass shooting.

You just recognized this fact with the CT shooting. Do you need additional help connecting the dots?

So now you are claiming there WAS an armed guard at the CT school?

Could you troll any harder?

 

[Alaska444]

Yes, I did.

No you didn't. Tell me the demographics. I assumed you were referring to liberal type politics, but these states are all "blue states" in most elections. NH, OR and Hawaii all went for Obama.

You know CA also has a lot of rural conservative areas but the total is overwhelmingly democratic. Oregon is the same. It is NOT a conservative state when you look at the sum total. There are conservatives in NY and NJ and MA as well, but not at a statewide level. Sorry, you are once again wrong thank you.

 

[9MMare]

So now you are claiming there WAS an armed guard at the CT school?

Could you troll any harder?

Nope, and if you cannot read and understand what is written...then it is there for anyone else to read.

I wont repeat it. If you cant understand it...and physics, since the guard that the CT shooter went around couldnt have gotten to that classroom to save those kids, armed or not....then please move on.

I fully accept that you cannot understand it.

 

[Alaska444]

Alaska444:
Thanks for the reminder about Israel. I knew nothing about the improved schools security results in other countries such as Peru and the Phillipines. That is news to me.

This is exactly what I'll mention to him, instead of being caught off guard by a random "armed people in schools" question.
But I anticipate that the skeptical or anti-gun people will respond with something like... "But the Israelis are surrounded by pockets of terrorists".
My counter-response might be "a guy wanting to kill children or adults must be stopped Now-there is no time to wait for the police". What is the best counter?

We have more murders in America each year than the number of people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some cities actual here are ahead of that count. Are we really less of a "war" zone than the Israeli's when it comes to violence?

 

[Alaska444]

Nope, and if you cannot read and understand what is written...then it is there for anyone else to read.

I wont repeat it. If you cant understand it...and physics, since the guard that the CT shooter went around couldnt have gotten to that classroom to save those kids, armed or not....then please move on.

I fully accept that you cannot understand it.

Please give a reference on the armed or not armed school guard. I have not seen any reference to that to date. Once again, please post a link and a reference, I can't find any on a google search.