Oddly approached at a gun show

[Penforhire]

I went to a local gun show this weekend, the Crossroads of the West at O.C. fairgrounds. I took a handgun with me to possibly trade. The weapon check-in table was located directly next to the entry gate and every gun had its action zip-tied open with an owner tag attached.

After I packed it back up in its case and walked three steps toward the gate a normal-looking fellow approached me and asked me a few questions. He was curious what it was, even though it was in plain sight on the table a few moments before (to me, impossible to confuse a 1911 for anything else). Then he asked me what I brought it for (to sell or trade) and how much I was looking for.

I got the sense he might be interested in buying it. But I also got a weird vibe from his semi-clueless questioning (maybe also his tone) and told him I really planned on trading it at a reputable dealer in the show. He sort of disappeared at that point (stopped asking questions and drifted off).

Got me to wondering if this guy wasn't either looking to make an illegal purchase (avoiding background check and DROS fee) or trying to entrap me on that same basis. Is the BATF that hard-up to make arrests?

 

[TarpleyG]

Is the BATF that hard-up to make arrests

Yes. And what really sucks is that you all have to do a background check for a person to person sale.

GT

 

[AJ Dual]

Sounds like the guy was looking to try an illegal (In CA anyway) person-to-person sale, and avoid an FFL transfer and NICS check.

The ATF wouldn't be running a sting like that though, as selling person-to-person private sales aren't federally illegal, or under federal jurisdiction. They're only illegal in CA, and perhaps a few other states that require all gun sales go through an FFL.

So if it really was a "sting" it was a California LEO of some kind, not ATF. In order of probability I'd say it was:

- Otherwise law-abiding guy looking to have a gun "off paper" due to his (justifiable IMO) paranoia of the state.

- Criminal or ex-con who can't pass a background check.

- Reporter trying to do yet another expose on the "gun show loophole".

- Cali LEO trying to create some sort of sting.

In the majority of states, private sales between two state residents that takes place within that state is perfectly legal and unregulated, but not CA.

Could also have been a dealer trying to get first dibs on your gun, and hoping to take you for a sucker.

 

[TonyB]

I always go with my "vibe"....if it don't feel right it probably isn't.......

 

[Pebcac]

I had a similar situation come up the last time I took a gun to a gunshow looking for a trade. Had several people ask me what I had that weren't interested, and then this one guy that just gave me the heebie-jeebies. Wouldn't look me in the eye, seriously nervous, and kept looking around like someone was watching him. I told him I wasn't there to sell, just looking for a holster to fit it. Gotta go with your instinct, and mine was screaming like a Python movie - "Run away! Run away!"

 

[Wildalaska]

Ya know in this world there are folk who are jest plain wierd...

WildsoundslikeyouallhavemetsomeofthemAlaska

 

[schadenfreude]

I am and I encourage everyone else to be SUPERLAWCITIZEN at the gunshows. I honestly don't give much care to what yo do in your own dealing but the gunshows are where we are most publicly seen and scrutinized. We being gun enthusiests and owners.

We need to set an example that nothing illegal should take place at the shows. If that means bringing a vendor or a buyer that is doing something wrong to the attention of the organizers or the police than so be it. They shouldn't be there anyways.

Just my 2 cents

 

[El Tejon]

Oh, Wild, quit talking about me!

Pen, guns draw in an enormous amount of people that are very interested but completely clueless about firearms. See this in any gun shoppe.

Doubt it was a Kali sting. Believe it or not I have just a little experience with those kind of things. If sting and hit wall, likely (but not definitely) would have ask if you knew anyone else selling and tack on conspiracy on you.

Just a wierd, but harmless, bird.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

wierd harmless birds are sometimes levered into assisting the BAFTE

 

[NukemJim]

I always go with my "vibe"....if it don't feel right it probably isn't.......

wierd harmless birds are sometimes levered into assisting the BAFTE

or other govermental agencies.

Gavin DeBecker (SP?) wrote a book "The gift of fear" I highly recomend it for all. ( Yes he is somewhat of a hypocrite and an anti as well ) who are concerned about personal security. In essence the book says "Listen to your gut/vibes/aura/feelings and do what they tell you to do" ( Please note I did NOT say listen to the voices in your head.

I have learned to.

The hard way.

NukemJim

 

[rayra]

Penforhire, I'd like to hear about the OC show - haven't been to a decent show since Crossroads was ousted from the L.A. County Fairgrounds. And OC would be no further for me.
How does it compare? Number of tables / dealers / buildings? Bulk ammo sellers?
Anything you can tell me would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[rick_reno]

About 7-8 years ago, I was at a gunshow in Reno. I pulled into the lot in my truck with Kalif. plates and parked. I got out and had just started to walk toward the entrance when I was approached by a "gentleman" who offered to sell me - at a very good price - AR type rifles from the trunk of his car. I didn't count them, but it looked like he had 15-20 AR rifles in the trunk. I told him I had no interest in semi-auto rifles and walked away. I don't know what make/model/etc. the rifles were, I don't have any interest in these kind of rifles. I suggested he take them into the show and try and sell/trade them there.

 

[t-stox]

Ya know this whole gun show loop hole thing! If it's legal to sell person to person without a NICS check I say DO IT! i'll sell to a freakin crack head I dont care. What I mean is as long as it's legal you should'nt have to worry about your prospective buyer this gun show loop hole is the last way for gun to remain "untraceable" and the feds know it! In fact if you think about it you don't even have to actually use the loophole to use it to your advantage. Say the day comes when they begin confiscating Assault rifles or what ever and the records of the gun shop you bought yours at points to you and the police come knocking. "where is it ?" they say. YOU SAY -"OH I sold that in '99 to some guy at some gun show we did'nt exchange info or anything except to say that he's a white guy named john" ................................................wheres your gun really? Who knows????


[Post edited to remove long string of question marks which stretches the post off screen.]

 

[ENC]

Well I wouldn't sell a gun to anyone that I suspect would use it for illegal reasons, but I definetly don't have a problem with private transfers. If I ever do get in a bind and have to sell some of my firearms I can guarantee which ones will and won't be sold. If nobody knows I got 'em it is going to dang sure stay that way.

 

[Penforhire]

Rayra, I can't compare the O.C. show to when it was at L.A. fairgrounds (never went). But it is about half the size of shows I remember in the late '80's in Sacramento. Still, had three buildings worth of vendors. Worth going if you need a few things or don't like mail-order for unusual books. There's also plenty of private sellers walking around with cardboard signs listing interesting stuff for sale.

What I notice is I can get deals on new gear from local shops that they would never give me as a walk-in to their retail location. They must figure I'm a captive audience if I walk in off the street. There's one or two local shops I prefer so I've found the best price for something and then gone back to their booths and negotiated that same price. I've tried that at the retail locations and it generally didn't work.

 

[TimH]

I happen to fall in the catagory of

- Otherwise law-abiding guy looking to have a gun "off paper" due to his (justifiable IMO) paranoia of the state.

Coupled with the fact that I new to guns I might have asked "what kind of gun it was" also.

 

[rayra]

Thanks Penforhire, I'll have to check it out (in the Spring?). Been going to the Ventura Co show, and two small buildings, couple hundred tables of garage-sale type merchandise just doesn't measure up.

Boy, I sure do miss the L.A. Co show, some 1500 tables, 9 buildings the size of football fields... (sniff)

 

[Phil Ca]

Several years ago I attended the Marin County gun show at the Marin Civic Center. As I entered, I was told that two female BATF agents were working the show. As I wandered around looking for interesting items I was reminded by different vendors that BATF was roaming around.

The two agents, both tall and slim and pretty good looking were wearing jeans and tight tops. One was a black female and the other was a blonde, white female. When they left they looked back at the crowd and a small cheer went up, celebrating their leaving the show.

During my years working for the federal sector, I had a few dealings with BATF people. In all that I met I only found two of them to be real decent folks. They were explosive experts and were teaching a bomb detection class. Some of the others I met were not worth the meeting, they looked like bums and were basically scum IMNSHO. We had some other names for them that are best left out of this post.

 

[Flak 88]

I once went to a show in Lexington,KY with a couple of buddies.One of them found a Springfield Armory M1A Bush rifle that he wanted.As he was waiting for the dealer to complete the paperwork he was approached by a guy asking all kinds of pointed questions.
He wanted to know what he wanted with such a dangerous looking weapon,what could he possibly need with something so evil looking.My friend explained that he wanted it to hunt deer with because they were rugged and reliable,and the shorter length would be easier to handle.
The guy shrugged his shoulders and walked away.
A few weeks later my friend was watching one of those newsmagazine shows and they were doing a segment on guns and guess who showed up on the program.
The guy who was asking him all the questions had been there with a hidden camera and had been trying to get people to say something that they could use to discredit guns.
You never know what the media or any of the alphabet agencies will do to make guns or gun owners look bad.Be careful!

 

[Psssniper]

The local So Cal shows seem to be getting better. 'Ol Bob has four buildings at the fairgrounds now plus the outside stuff as well. Ammo tables didn't have the usual crush of people. Best find of the day was Big Al the Marine, back from Iraq, manning his booth selling knives and .50 cal Serbu's. It was great to see him.