Greetings there maybe good links to answer my question as this subject may have been covered to death. I'm looking for a .357 magnum defensive round for my 4" 686 with moderate velocity and on the heavier side grain wise but am unsure of which one. I know from past discussions that the Speer GD 158gr. was not necessarily intended for self defense. I was considering the 158gr Hydra Shok or the Winchester Silver Tip 145 gr. Though I would prefer bonded and am not sure if either of those are.
Of the heavier grain .357 mag defensive loads which one?
- Thread starter Bud Light
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A Speer spokesman told me that the 158 Gold Dot is indeed not meant for defense against humans. It should fare well against large soft-skinned animals at attacking distances. (Bear, cougar, leopard, feral dogs, and hyenas.)
The Hydra-Shok is intended for quicker expansion than most 158's, and will still hold together and penetrate. A Federal spokesman told me that it makes a fine deer load for when a .357 is suitable for deer. (Within 50 or so yards, with excellent shot placement.) Remington's JHP probably would work, too, and has been very accurate in my .357's. Ditto for Federal's Classic round.
Lone Star
The Hydra-Shok is intended for quicker expansion than most 158's, and will still hold together and penetrate. A Federal spokesman told me that it makes a fine deer load for when a .357 is suitable for deer. (Within 50 or so yards, with excellent shot placement.) Remington's JHP probably would work, too, and has been very accurate in my .357's. Ditto for Federal's Classic round.
Lone Star
I shoot Winchester 180gr fodder out of my Taurus 651 snubby. It uses a Nosler Partition hollow point & is considered "hunting" ammo.
I can not vouch for its effectiveness vs two-legged predators, but it shoots to point of aim and is stinkin' accurate. (I had trouble finding a round where POA~POI & had to go off hte beaten path.)
I, too, have a S&W 686 4". The Winny 180gr is easier on the shooter than a full-house 158gr or 125gr cartridge.
My tale:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=119364&highlight=taurus
Good luck finding the right solution for you.
I can not vouch for its effectiveness vs two-legged predators, but it shoots to point of aim and is stinkin' accurate. (I had trouble finding a round where POA~POI & had to go off hte beaten path.)
I, too, have a S&W 686 4". The Winny 180gr is easier on the shooter than a full-house 158gr or 125gr cartridge.
My tale:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=119364&highlight=taurus
Good luck finding the right solution for you.
Ben Shepherd
Member
Relative penetration preformance (out of my brain, as I foolishly didn't write things down in detail):
Penetration deepest to the most shallow(1 being deepest):
1. 158 hornady XTP
2. 158 speer GDHP
3. 158 federal hydra-shock
4. 140 cor-bon
5. 145 winchester silver tip
As for exact depth I don't know, I was unscientifically grading them "on the curve" in soaked phone books. The first three were a classic mushroom, with similar depth(within 2" or so), while the cor-bon and silvertip were substantially more shallow and much more, um, "explosive"(not much left to mushroom, but a heck of a lot of damage.).
Penetration deepest to the most shallow(1 being deepest):
1. 158 hornady XTP
2. 158 speer GDHP
3. 158 federal hydra-shock
4. 140 cor-bon
5. 145 winchester silver tip
As for exact depth I don't know, I was unscientifically grading them "on the curve" in soaked phone books. The first three were a classic mushroom, with similar depth(within 2" or so), while the cor-bon and silvertip were substantially more shallow and much more, um, "explosive"(not much left to mushroom, but a heck of a lot of damage.).
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bpisler
Member
I too like a heavy bullet load to
carry in my 3" 65-3.I tried them
all and went with the PMC 150gr
starfire 357 mag.It's very
accurate and shots to POA at 15
yards.Recoil,muzzle flash/blast
seem to be less than the others.
I would buy various brands,shoot
them up and see which works best
for you,good luck.
carry in my 3" 65-3.I tried them
all and went with the PMC 150gr
starfire 357 mag.It's very
accurate and shots to POA at 15
yards.Recoil,muzzle flash/blast
seem to be less than the others.
I would buy various brands,shoot
them up and see which works best
for you,good luck.
DHart
Member
I believe in penetration above all else, with expansion if you can get it along with your penetration. You never know when your bullets may have to pass through an arm or two, possibly a heavy leather coat, wool coat, layers of denim, etc. before they even get to the possible layer upon layer of fat and muscle, and then, finally, perhaps have an opportunity to tear into some deep vital organs or spinal column. I suspect that most hollowpoints would have a bit of a tough time dealing with all of that... especially the light weight ones. Though the 158's look good in that regard.
While 158 gr Gold Dot is a good load for light game, like small deer and smaller animals, I feel very confident in it as a personal defense round, especially during cold months when people are likely to be heavily clothed. And a great many Americans are heavily built (over fed?) as well.
The 158 gr. HydraShok sounds like a goodie, but I haven't tried any. I do often carry Winchester's 145 gr. Silvertip.. especially during hot months when people wear very little in the way of clothing. As far as I'm concerned, any .357 load with a bullet lighter than 145 gr. is out of consideration for me.
Soon Speer will be releasing their announced 135 gr. .357 "SB" (for short-barrel) Gold Dot load. It's likely to have a cavernous hollow point which will certainly expand reliably at moderate to low .357 velocities... as one might expect from a 2" .357 snubby. I wouldn't expect such a bullet to offer very much on the penetration scale, but for use in snubbies during hot summer months, it's likely to be a pretty good load... as is the 135 gr. .38 spl +P Gold Dot for .38 snubbies.
I'm not a CorBon fan, so I would stick with the 145 ST, 158 H-S, and the 158 GD, depending on how you feel about penetration.
While 158 gr Gold Dot is a good load for light game, like small deer and smaller animals, I feel very confident in it as a personal defense round, especially during cold months when people are likely to be heavily clothed. And a great many Americans are heavily built (over fed?) as well.
The 158 gr. HydraShok sounds like a goodie, but I haven't tried any. I do often carry Winchester's 145 gr. Silvertip.. especially during hot months when people wear very little in the way of clothing. As far as I'm concerned, any .357 load with a bullet lighter than 145 gr. is out of consideration for me.
Soon Speer will be releasing their announced 135 gr. .357 "SB" (for short-barrel) Gold Dot load. It's likely to have a cavernous hollow point which will certainly expand reliably at moderate to low .357 velocities... as one might expect from a 2" .357 snubby. I wouldn't expect such a bullet to offer very much on the penetration scale, but for use in snubbies during hot summer months, it's likely to be a pretty good load... as is the 135 gr. .38 spl +P Gold Dot for .38 snubbies.
I'm not a CorBon fan, so I would stick with the 145 ST, 158 H-S, and the 158 GD, depending on how you feel about penetration.
atlctyslkr
Member
My vote is on the 158gr Hydrashoks. I like it in my snubs. From the tests I've read expansion is good from snubs.
SAWBONES
Member
"Soon Speer will be releasing their announced 135 gr. .357 "SB" (for short-barrel) Gold Dot load. It's likely to have a cavernous hollow point which will certainly expand reliably at moderate to low .357 velocities."
They're released.
I've got some (only 40 rounds left, unfortunately) and shot up 60 rounds of it in my ported Ruger SP101s. Don't know velocities (no chronograph), but it seems just a bit more potent than Speer's Gold Dot .38 Special +P short barrel load. It's as accurate and precise as the .38 Special SB load, and appears to just be the same bullet, but in the longer .357 Magnum case.
I lean toward Buffalo Bore's 158gr and 170gr JHP/JHC rounds in heavier .357 Magnum stuff, myself.
They're released.
I've got some (only 40 rounds left, unfortunately) and shot up 60 rounds of it in my ported Ruger SP101s. Don't know velocities (no chronograph), but it seems just a bit more potent than Speer's Gold Dot .38 Special +P short barrel load. It's as accurate and precise as the .38 Special SB load, and appears to just be the same bullet, but in the longer .357 Magnum case.
I lean toward Buffalo Bore's 158gr and 170gr JHP/JHC rounds in heavier .357 Magnum stuff, myself.
Jim March
Member
Sawbones, that's exactly my impression of the 357 135gr Gold Dot, except I found it to be more accurate than the 38+P variety in my 4.68" barrel Ruger New Vaq.
Cosmoline
Member
The 180 grain SJHP's from Remington are about the best available. They are designed for faster expasion than the other heavy .357's and hit like a freight train without giving up penetration. Maybe not the best for hunting hogs, but just about perfect for two legged predators.
For the last 8 years I have been using the Federal 180gr. JHP effectively on Texas Whitetail and Mule Deer. I harvested a 418lb. sough at 75 yards, two years ago, with this round as well. She dropped in her tracks. It resides in all my .357mags except one. That would be my wifes (previously mine) Ruger SP-101. That one has 158gr. HydraShoks in all 5 tubes.
Marshall
Member
I shoot 158gr GDHP's and 145gr Silvertips mostly. I'm satisfied they'll do anything I need in the SD catagory. I shoot the Hydra Shok's too, I just haven't bought any in .357 Mag.
You might follow this thread on the smith-wesson user forum ....
http://smith-wessonforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/550103904/m/5471026821
essentially the findings are that 145 grain silver tips are a good round ... the opinion from the morgue seems to be that there really are no bad .357 magnum rounds .... some just might be better than others in certain circumstances.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/550103904/m/5471026821
essentially the findings are that 145 grain silver tips are a good round ... the opinion from the morgue seems to be that there really are no bad .357 magnum rounds .... some just might be better than others in certain circumstances.
Jim March
Member
Hook has it right.
My only extra thought is that I suspect some very modern high-tech rounds can get a lot of business done without huge raw power numbers or big recoil. The new 135gr 357Mag Gold Dot "Short Barrel" is exactly such a critter and as a bonus, it has tested well in my gun (Ruger New Vaq 4.68" tube) as being very accurate, better than anything else I've shot in it and was extremely comfortable shooting one handed or two.
In something like a Ruger SP101 this round would really rock.
My only extra thought is that I suspect some very modern high-tech rounds can get a lot of business done without huge raw power numbers or big recoil. The new 135gr 357Mag Gold Dot "Short Barrel" is exactly such a critter and as a bonus, it has tested well in my gun (Ruger New Vaq 4.68" tube) as being very accurate, better than anything else I've shot in it and was extremely comfortable shooting one handed or two.
In something like a Ruger SP101 this round would really rock.
Sunday morning, I fired two 158 gr. Hydra Shocks into a kevlar vest at 15 yards. They expanded completely, penetrated well, and retained nearly all of their weight. The Extreme Shock and GDHP did not expand in this informal, nearly meaningless test.
Diamondback
Member
I too find the 145 gr. Silvertips and the 150 gr. Starfire a good compromise between velocity, bullet weight, accuracy, recoil and penetration. However in a smaller 2" snub ( read: J frame ) I find the reduced load 125 gr. Remington best for me. ( I was also a fan of the Pro Load Tactical Lite 125 gr. Gold Dot hollow point....but unfortunately it is no longer in production ).
I have also tried the real heavy Winchester Supreme Partition Gold 180 gr. stuff and found it to be surprisingly manageable again, in all but my 2" J frame.......however in my Ruger SP 101 it was no issue. I like the heavy Winchester round. I appreciate Cosmoline and Bigmike45 posting their experience with the 180 gr. Remington and Federal rounds. I intend to give both of them a try ! I am also curious to see how the new Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot will perform in my S&W 2" M66.
-regards
I have also tried the real heavy Winchester Supreme Partition Gold 180 gr. stuff and found it to be surprisingly manageable again, in all but my 2" J frame.......however in my Ruger SP 101 it was no issue. I like the heavy Winchester round. I appreciate Cosmoline and Bigmike45 posting their experience with the 180 gr. Remington and Federal rounds. I intend to give both of them a try ! I am also curious to see how the new Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot will perform in my S&W 2" M66.
-regards
Smith357
Member
I was not a big fan of the move to light bullets in the .357. I have always liked bigger bullets so I load the 180 grain Hornady XTPs in my defensive rounds. I have to check my reloading book to check the powder amounts but the last time I chronographed them moving at about 900fps from a 2.5 inch carry gun, and 1100 fps from my 6" nightstand gun, with very managable recoil and muzzle flash.
myrmindon
Member
In my Ruger GP100 4" I use hornady XTP 180gr HP.
Though it is probably more for hunting I believe it would be sufficient enough
For personal protection.
myrmindon
Though it is probably more for hunting I believe it would be sufficient enough
For personal protection.
myrmindon
A Speer spokesman told me that the 158 Gold Dot is indeed not meant for defense against humans"
is there a 158gr bullet in 357mag made by speer? if it kills why woulndt it be for defnse against humans or anything else??
is a 41 mag or 44 mag noitmeant for defense against humans either??
is there a 158gr bullet in 357mag made by speer? if it kills why woulndt it be for defnse against humans or anything else??
is a 41 mag or 44 mag noitmeant for defense against humans either??
what is a drawback with a 125gr 357 at 1500fps over a 158gr 357 moving at 1250fps??
is there a 158gr bullet??
http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-125-gr-Critical-Defense/
is there some advantage to a heaver , same-caliber bullet at less energy and velocity than the 125 gr bullet with regard to killing living creatures?? is there some physical relationship that makes the heavier same-caliber bullet less likely to be lethal or do something?? or do you have no idea?
is there a 158gr bullet??
http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-125-gr-Critical-Defense/
is there some advantage to a heaver , same-caliber bullet at less energy and velocity than the 125 gr bullet with regard to killing living creatures?? is there some physical relationship that makes the heavier same-caliber bullet less likely to be lethal or do something?? or do you have no idea?
_N4Z_
Member
This thread was started in 2005, and last touched in 2006... Just sayin'.
DHart
Member
The 158 gr. Speer Gold Dot round is good for hunting because of it's penetrative ability, but also good for defense against humans where penetration of many layers of heavy clothing may be needed... such as during winter in severe climates. If I felt I might need to defend against a heavily built assailant wearing many layers of heavy clothing, I'd pick the 158 gr. Gold Dot in .357 caliber and be confident in it's ability to penetrate all those layers of heavy clothes, as well as deep layers of fat and/or muscle.
On the other hand, if such penetration isn't felt necessary, the 135 gr. Gold Dot and 145 gr. Silvertip are the loads I would choose in this caliber.
On the other hand, if such penetration isn't felt necessary, the 135 gr. Gold Dot and 145 gr. Silvertip are the loads I would choose in this caliber.
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