OH MY HECK! Gunshow gone wrong

[ID-shooting]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Accidental-shooting-at-Fort-Boise-Gun-Show-injures-two-202865921.html

ND at gunshow in Boise today. I bet there is an open table tomorow. :banghead:

 

[OilyPablo]

Someone violated one or more of the four rules. Idiot.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Standard beech of gun safety rules.

 

[mayassa]

By Monday this will be big news here in DC semi automatic gun shoot out at gun show, with out background check.

 

[ID-shooting]

Seems to be a bunch of these this year. Is really happening more or is it the news-hounds waiting to pounce on anything gun related to smear gun ownership?

I wonder, with all the new owners, panic buyers, new profiteers trying to cash in if we will see more of this.

 

[rcmodel]

The firearm that caused the injury was part of a vendor's display at the show.

And that right there is the problem.

Any idjit can be a gun show dealer!
All it takes is a few guns and some money to rent a table.
No requirement to be sober the night before, or have a lick of gun-safety common sense at o-dark thirty the next morning.


I have found two loaded pistols on dealers tables in the last 20 years when I ask to look at them and chamber-checked them before looking.

And I walked into a ND with a .45 Auto three years ago that left me laying on the floor under a table until a 230 grain .45 FMJ finally stopped bouncing around a concrete exhibition hall.

In all cases, the 'dealers' where using display guns for CCW, or a bedside companion in a motel the night before.
And forgot to unload them the next morning when they packed up to go try to sell them!!

rc

 

[TrickyDick]

Usually here, all guns that are for purchase at tables are chamber-checked by someone before they enter the area, and CCW is prohibited. and the majority of guns have been ziptied with the action open. This does not apply to all, but I've never come across a loaded display. but that's just me.

 

[smalls]

I'm perfectly fine with people carrying into shows. But every single gun that is intended for sale needs a chamber flag in it. There's too many idiots.

 

[hang fire]

By Monday this will be big news here in DC semi automatic gun shoot out at gun show, with out background check.

And gang banger's shoot six dead, fourteen wouded, in Chicago gun free zone will not merit a mention.

 

[CSG]

Jeez, ain't that the truth. Still, how something like this happens is beyond me.

 

[tryshoot]

Is it possible somebody looked at it and put a shell in? How do we know it wasn't. If he sayes it was unloaded, it probably was.

 

[nwilliams]

Authorities say someone at the gun show picked up a large-caliber handgun and unintentionally fired it.

That's not unintentional that's just plain being stupid. For one why was the gun loaded in the first place while on display at gun show? Either the owner of the gun is a complete idiot or someone put a round in the gun with malicious intent. The person who picked up the gun and fired it is obviously an idiot because he pulled the trigger of a firearm simply assuming it was empty, YOU NEVER JUST ASSUME WHEN IT COMES TO FIREARMS!:banghead:

Thank god nobody was killed!

 

[rcmodel]

If he sayes it was unloaded, it probably was.

Not!

See post #6.

The dealers that packed up 400 miles away, or down the street, drove all night to get there, or partied in the motel the night before are the dangers at a gun show!!

That's been the case in the three incidents I have had direct involvement with.

rc

 

[Moparnut]

I wondered about somebody throwing a round in one myself. Some anti wants to make some bad press for us that would be a good way to do it.

 

[radar1972]

This will get more MSM coverage than the Kermit Gosnell trial.

 

[Ignition Override]

A flea market in this area (about a year ago) had a small gun show in a narrow side room.

I carried my Mauser inside from the flea market's connecting door, but this was not how many people entered.
Nobody in the show checked it, and they put no strap on the bolt, even when I walked over to a table to pay the eight dollars.

They might have assumed that it had been checked earlier from the official gun show door, despite the fact that my hand had no ink stamp?

Moparnut: One of the moderators at either THR or Thefiringline suspected that an anti Had hoped for injuries at a show many years ago.
From what I recall, the moderator was positive that with rounds found in a few different handgun chambers-on tables-at a single show, it was either an anti or another type of mental case who did it.

 

[leprechaun50]

IMO both the dealer and customer share the blame. Any time you are allowing someone to handle a firearm belonging to you, you need to check it before letting them handle it and they need to check it again as soon as it is in their possession.

 

[Leanwolf]

Although I was not at the Boise Gun Show today, I have several friends who have tables there. I have had tables with my friends at times for many years at the Lewis-Clark Gun Show, run by the Snyder family, who has been doing these shows here for many years, four per year.

This show today was sponsered by a local gun club, the E-Dah-How Gun Club. They too have been putting on two shows a year for many years in the same building.

For several years, it has been required that no one, dealer or private gun owner, is allowed to have a gun in the building that has not been made inoperable with a plastic zip tie, through the magazine well, or locking the hammer to the frame, etc., etc., etc., no matter what type firearms.

If a person enters the building who has a CCW, or is openly carrying a firearm, he or she is required to turn over all their ammo from that CCW to a Guard at the front door. Any firearm carried into the building by a "private party" who wants to sell or trade it, must have that firearm made inoperable with a zip tie.

When the private party CCW owner leaves, the ammo in a plastic bag with his/her name is returned to the owner. They may not load up in the building.

It has been my experience that during the Lewis-Clark Gun Show, the Snyder family and those security people who work for them, are extremely diligent about constantly cruising the tables, throughout the show, including the Friday setup, to make certain that all firearms are made safe.

Conversely, I've noticed that the E-Dah-How people are not nearly as careful about being diligent and observing, and I've seen guns on E-Dah-How Gun Show tables without the zip ties.

My friend with whom I talked tonight, along with my other friends, had several tables very close to the CD incident. (Careless Discharge.) He said that there was not the careful inspection being done.

Whether or not this was a cause of the CD I do not know. The point is that the dealer had an operable gun on the table with a cartridge in it. A lookyloo numbskull in his late 20s walked by, picked up the pistol and pulled the trigger. WHAM!

I believe it was a FMJ bullet, .45 ACP. The barrel was pointed at the concrete floor and apparently the FMJ fragments wounded two bystanders. One man, tragically, may lose the sight in one of his eyes. He was transported by ambulance to the hospital. The other wounded man was treated on site by Paramedics and released.

This was told to me by my friend who was there.

I'm sure more information will be forthcoming.

What a needless, tragic, Careless Discharge incident!

L.W.

 

[scaatylobo]

Since 1977

I have been going to gun shows since 1977 and I even set up at a 'few' to sell my stuff off in the past.

I have never heard or seen a ND or close to one yet.

I ALWAYS checked and then rechecked all the guns on my table before tying them with snap ties,then if removed to show --- retied AFTER checking 3 times.

I was at a gun show a few years back and a elderly man was trying to unload a 1911 that he carried for years,he was sitting in his car and shot himself in the femoral artery and died of blood loss very quickly.

I do believe they called it at the hospital,so the gun show was not mentioned on the news at all.

I am of the opinion that ALL gun shows allow you to carry at all times ---- BUT there will be a copy of the state law as to RECKLESS discharge and display of a loaded firearm,resulting in IMMEDIATE ARREST !.

ANYONE TAKING OUT A LOADED FIREARM,needs to be arrested unless their life is threatened and they are about to use that firearm.

If your adult enough to CCW,then you need to be adult enough to know EXACTLY when, and when NOT to draw your weapon.

AND you need to know the results [ ARREST ] of being a threat to anyone with a loaded gun in your hand for no cause ,other than to see if it fits a holster !.

 

[bikerdoc]

A lookyloo numbskull in his late 20s walked by, picked up the pistol and pulled the trigger. WHAM!

Who doe not clear a weapon before pulling the triger - a knucklehead !

Who puts a cartridge in a weapon at a gunshow, - a careless individual with an intent to do harm, in other words a criminal.

 

[rio nueces]

And that right there is the problem.

...

And I walked into a ND with a .45 Auto three years ago that left me laying on the floor under a table until a 230 grain .45 FMJ finally stopped bouncing around a concrete exhibition hall.

.....

rc

Please explain to me how jumping under a table and laying on the floor will protect one from a bullet supposedly bouncing off walls and careening around the room.
I would be far too embarrassed to do such a thing.

BTW, I have been present when an AD occurred at a show, it's over in a nanosecond.
Quite refreshing actually, how it brings absolute and instant quiet to the room.

 

[Trent]

Please explain to me how jumping under a table and laying on the floor will protect one from a bullet supposedly bouncing off walls and careening around the room.
I would be far too embarrassed to do such a thing.

BTW, I have been present when an AD occurred at a show, it's over in a nanosecond.
Quite refreshing actually, how it brings absolute and instant quiet to the room.

You dive for cover if you've been involved with a shooting before. RC has served in combat, IIRC. He couldn't stand there upright while shots are fired anymore than you could coerce a catfish to get out of the water and walk up a beach.

Anyway, your logic is faulty.

Who says there's only going to be ONE shot?

For all you know some maniac snuck in a loaded 30 round magazine, slapped it in an AR-15, and that first shot is about to be followed by 29 more.

 

[Reloadron]

We had one a few months ago here in NE Ohio at the rather large Medina Gun Show. My wife and I left the show at about 1 PM and the accidental discharge happened about 1/2 hour later.

With about 40 years of gun shows behind me I do not recall accidental discharges before recent years. Something I have observed is a new wave of idiots on both sides of the tables. I saw this trend starting about 15 or so years ago when we were actively working the shows. While we still enjoy attending the shows we have become a little more aware of what is going on around us.

In the case of gun shows the term AD (Accidental Discharge) could easily be replaced with SD (Stupid Discharge). As to anti gun types attending shows and loading weapons (sabotage) that won't wash as the guy on the other side of the table should be constantly checking his or her guns. Stupid people and idiots should not be handling guns anymore than the mentally disturbed.

Just My Take
Ron

 

[jfrey]

"The firearm that caused the injury....." It wasn't the firearm, it was the dummie who put or left the round in the gun that caused the injury. Why blame a cold piece of steel? This is a people issue, not a gun issue.

 

[jmr40]

Just a point of clarification. This was not a Negligent Discharge, but an
Accidental Discharge. The MSM even got it right, but some in the shooting community want to upgrade everything and call it negligence. There is a HUGE difference from a legal perspective. A true ND is a very rare incident.

This is one of those details that will come back to bite us all in the butt if we are not careful to use proper terminology.

In order to rise to the level of negligence someone has to do something that they know, or should have known is dangerous that led to the accident. There is no reason to believe a gun on a table at a gunshow would be loaded. If there is any negligence here it is on the part of the person running the table. And that does not mean the person pulling the trigger is not partially responsible. You would never get any prosecutor to file negligence charges here, nor would any jury convict in this case.

The same standards apply to traffic accidents. People have traffic accidents all the time. If you are found to be at fault, you are still resopnsible for any damages or injuries you caused. You could even be sued later. But to rise to the level of negligence you had to be doing something else that directly led to the accident. Driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, speeding, driving wrecklessly, etc. Having a brain fart and making a mistake is still an accident. It does not mean you are not responsible however.

If we continue to list every unintentional discharge as a ND, we are inferring that the very act of owning guns is something dangerous. Not the message we need to be sending right now.