Oh those vicious anti Dems

[Helmetcase]

I was a member there, and was scoring a lot of points against some of the dumber anti's over there...so they banned me.

I'm back under another screen name...let's see how long before they catch on and can me again.

BenEzra is my main man.

 

[Maxwell]

I believe it was denis miller (or one of those comics) who gave a lengthy rant that ended with words to the effect of "one of these days when the revolution starts, the anti-gun stance will take an ironic crap in their mouths".

Sad, but true.

You cant want to turn the government over and at the same time give those officials the absolute power of law and force. Your "peoples army" wont last long.

If I was the libs, I'd be pushing rkba even harder than the conservatives.

 

[beerslurpy]

You know, I once attended a meeting of the "Workers World Party" or "Socialist Workers of the World" (I can't remember the name exactly), just to see what they were like. It was a full-on capital-C Communist group meeting at the UW-Madison campus student union. This was in 1988, before the fall of the Berlin wall.

Their platform was pro-gun-ownership. For obvious reasons.

Needless to say, it didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

Not that (most of) the people at DU are communists, I'm just saying...

Well, that makes them useful idiots. There are many fundamental differences in culture between here and early 20th century Russia that completely negate the possibility of a 1917 style violent revolution here. For one, the peasants in russia were largely disarmed and obedient, americans tend to be relatively heavily armed and independent minded. These differences have endured into the 21st century.

Gun ownership helps to blunt the impact of violent nutcases because they are always the minority and in a heavily armed society, that means they will be essentially unable to force their will upon the populace. A violent fascist, theocratic or collectivist putsch will fail because unlike russia, overthrowing the government is merely the first small step in overcoming a large, heavily armed and unsympathetic populace that doesnt view you as legitimate rulers.

Change in America comes from the ground up, and democracy ensures that power changes hands peacefully. Civilian armament prevents the more egregious forms of power-grabbing that have troubled other nations. When you see communists acting like the black panthers, rejoice, for they will soon be smacked down. When you see them acting like Martin Luther King, be worried, for soon they will be taxing you.

 

[GoRon]

If the national Dems are going to change their stripes on gun control it is going to be due to grassroots pressure.

The same type of pressure that is driving the anti war, anti Bush agenda in the party now.

Maybe if the Dems move to the center on gun rights the Republicans will move from the center to the right.

 

[antsi]

Completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what a few of their constituency thinks when Kennedy, Kerry, Feinstein, Klinton, Schumer, Boxer, Lautenberg and their like run the party.

Right.

Hillbilly's on it, too.

 

[Helmetcase]

If the national Dems are going to change their stripes on gun control it is going to be do to grassroots pressure.

The same type of pressure that is driving the anti war, anti Bush agenda in the party now.

Maybe if the Dems move to the center on gun rights the Republicans will move from the center to the right.

I would think they'll have to. They've been taking the gun owner vote for granted for so long that if and when they actually have to compete for gun votes, they'll have do more than just offer the RKBA the token lip service they've been giving it. Two parties competing for RKBA votes = good for us, whether liberal or conservative.

 

[Manedwolf]

Can I die in shock ???

I was flabbergasted to see the pro-gun sentiments coming, from all places, the DU!!!! Life never ceases to amaze me !!

Logical, to me.

People who already didn't like the current administration are perhaps more likely to realize "Hey, we could be heading down the fascist road here, I better be able to defend my family IF THAT HAPPENS..."

More likely, perhaps, than the sorts of extremists who think that their current leaders are some sort of deities who can do no wrong, despite the immigration/border issues, the illegal wiretaps, the unitary-executive leanings, the blatant cronyism in the placement of incompetent political appointees, the erosion of civil rights, the failure to nail bin Laden, etc, etc....

Wouldn't it be ironic if more and more Dems turned to pro-gun because of this being a wake-up call, that, much as in the early 1770's, rampant and blatant government abuse of power demonstrates that sometimes, You Can't Trust Government, and that ultimately, you're responsible for defending your own freedom and the safety of your family?

While at the same time, the extremist Freepers, I think, would scream about the need to feel secure even if it means giving up rights, right up to and past the point where Big Government declared that semiauto long guns and high-cap mags are only something "a TERRAHIST would use" and took them all away...and not make a fuss about it.

Yeah, there will always be blissninnies. But I'm seeing more and more Dems realize:

1. Civil rights are going to hell in the name of thumbsucking false "security"
2. Bush doesn't even seem to WANT to secure the borders - this is totally bipartisan now
3. New Orleans...police and nat'l guard leaving people defenseless by taking their guns
4. If this keeps going this way, nobody will be able to defend my family but me
5. To defend myself, I need an adequate weapon
6. Hey, I just tried to buy a weapon, and it's a nightmare of stupid laws and red tape.
7. I can't defend my family because of these stupid laws in my state

So there you go...cause for rising change.

 

[XLMiguel]

+1 BenEzra

He posted a very well thought out essay a while back on why "reasonable gun control" was a done deal and why teh grabbers ought to bugger off and move onto real problems-

 

[cbsbyte]

It's funny but I am seeing more Pro-gun Democrats getting elected in Mass, than Republicans. Actually, our Republican governor is a Statis and believe's in strict gun control. If Mass Democrats in general are willing to change their stance on Guns, than so can the DNC. It might take some years but maybe if all started supporting more pro-2Ad Democrats then the change can made quicker.

 

[G36-UK]

He posted a very well thought out essay a while back on why "reasonable gun control" was a done deal and why teh grabbers ought to bugger off and move onto real problems-

And as I recall, the aforementioned over-zealous antis tried to pick apart his argument, with very little success. Cue connecting him to the NRA.

 

[orionengnr]

Hillbilly--- clear, concise, factual

I probably ought to bookmark his post; it will come in handy in future discussions of this type.

 

[FPrice]

DU is an example of groupthink just like THR is,

THR is groupthink?

Have you read the thread about the wearing of Special Forces clothing in public???

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Can I die in shock ???

I was flabbergasted to see the pro-gun sentiments coming, from all places, the DU!!!! Life never ceases to amaze me !!

There are lots of no-compromise pro-gun people on DU. a) Even Dems who hate guns are starting to realize that they are throwing away national elections over this pointless issue and b) there are some Dems who are gun owners and truly support gun rights, just like everyone here on THR.

The DU gun forum has got plenty of people who feel exactly the same way we (THR) feel about guns. And I know there are people like me on THR who probably agree with the people on DU on a lot of liberal issues like the environment, the war in Iraq, the death penalty, gay rights (including marriage), on and on.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Gun rights are not a partisan issue. Caring about gun rights is not exclusive to conservatives. Gun rights cut across every political viewpoint and party. The more inclusive we are the more solid we will be.


Witness the current situation in KS with CCW: The main force behind the CCW bill is a Dem and the main force against it is the Repub gov, who will veto it.

The more partisan we make this issue, the weaker we are.

 

[antsi]

There are lots of no-compromise pro-gun people on DU. a) Even Dems who hate guns are starting to realize that they are throwing away national elections over this pointless issue and b) there are some Dems who are gun owners and truly support gun rights, just like everyone here on THR.

The more partisan we make this issue, the weaker we are.

I'm not making it a partisan issue.

The party that consistently supports gun control, the party that throws out people like Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, Daley, etc, is the one that's making it a partisan issue.

In-state politics is sometimes a different animal. In very conservative states, like much of the South and some of the Midwest, you will often get Democrats who are somewhat less noxious on gun rights issues. Oftentimes these same Democrats become rabid anti's once they get up on the national stage (case in point: Al Gore).

I don't see the Dems really changing their stripes on this. I think it is likely they will tone down their anti-gun act during election season. Once they get elected, if they get elected, I see more of the same old anti-gun idiocy coming from them.

 

[odysseus]

I am scared... someone hug me.

 

[Maxwell]

Gun rights are not a partisan issue. Caring about gun rights is not exclusive to conservatives.

It should never have been a partisan issue, but its been so for some time.
Alot of the Democrats in power feel they can legislate the nation into a kinder gentler place. They figured that the common man no longer needed such a crude instrument with a warm and loving government to guide him.

Thats just not how the world works.

Whats ironic is that now theyve caught the fear bug. They see how a government can turn away from their ideals and just keep going no matter how loud they shout or how many blogs they write. They also see how even an insane number of cops on the street still wont keep the crooks out your house. Worse yet, they've seen its cost them votes.

This realisation comes after theyve been happily disarming themselves and everyone around them for the last half century.


...so now their interested in gun rights again?

The founding fathers and many conservatives would say: "Welcome back. How was your trip?"

 

[Manedwolf]

I'm not making it a partisan issue.

The party that consistently supports gun control, the party that throws out people like Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, Daley, etc, is the one that's making it a partisan issue.

Like Bloomberg (R) blaming the NRA for police shootings...

 

[RealGun]

i think there are more THRers on DU than Democrats

Judging by the posts on THR lately, I have to wonder who is influencing whom.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

When you see communists acting like the black panthers, rejoice, for they will soon be smacked down. When you see them acting like Martin Luther King, be worried, for soon they will be taxing you.

Heck, "they" may even be sitting next to you on the bus...

 

[Firethorn]

I've seen this multiple times on the DU.

While they're definitly not as pro-gun as we are, they're suprisingly rational about it. Many appear to be progun. There are those that think the NRA is a Republican arm, having to 'work' on making the candidates acceptable to gun owners.

Heck, having an 'enemy' in the whitehouse is at least making many of them think about the true meaning of the 2nd amendment.

 

[Maxwell]

They've got short attention spans, the thinking wont last long.
Once they get another Dem in power any thoughts of needing weapon rights will go flying out the window.

 

[beerslurpy]

Problem is that electing 10 pro-gun dems will still leave like 40 more senior anti-gun dems already in the Senate. Even worse, the most anti of them are also the most senior, so you can bet they will be chairing committees. Do you really want Kennedy to be the chair of the Senate Judicial Committee? Do you think Alito would make it to the supreme court if the dems had a 10-8 majority with feinstein and kennedy on the committee?

Youre really asking for a lot of trust here. And I dont think that trust is warranted.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

The party that consistently supports gun control, the party that throws out people like Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, Daley, etc, is the one that's making it a partisan issue.

"The party" doesn't throw out weinies like Kennedy and Feinstein. Weiny state organizations in weiny statest throw out weiny candidates like that.

In-state politics is sometimes a different animal. In very conservative states, like much of the South and some of the Midwest, you will often get Democrats who are somewhat less noxious on gun rights issues. Oftentimes these same Democrats become rabid anti's once they get up on the national stage (case in point: Al Gore).

And when a Dem from a pro-gun state votes against gun rights, he or she soon finds him or herself looking for a new job. Do you suppose that A-hole Daschle has realized what a bone-headed move voting to renew the AWB was for a South Dakota senator (from either party)? Probably not, because he doesn't seem all that perceptive. I suspect his momma drank some.

 

[RealGun]

And when a Dem from a pro-gun state votes against gun rights, he or she soon finds him or herself looking for a new job.

That certainly wasn't true in SC. We had to wait for a career Senator to retire. Fritz Hollings, a former Governor, was a left wing Democrat and a buddy of Ted Kennedy, F- on the the GOA scale of gun rights ratings. He was replaced by an A-rated (GOA) Republican moving over from the House (Jim DeMint). The only thing apparent is the power of incumbency, making one think that too many voters don't have a clue except for name recognition.

 

[RavenVT100]

I find it highly amusing that the most prolific poster on DU's gun forum who hangs out in the "anti" camp happens to be Canadian. Not from Canada, in Canada. Yes, DU being as extreme as it is apparently cannot dig up anyone willing to push the agenda day in and day out from their own country, so they had to import. And here I thought you actually had to be a US citizen to be Democrat.