OK! I'm confused, 36 Navy Conversion?

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Josey

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:confused: I want to try to figure out something. I am interested in a pair of DGW sourced Uberti London model 1851 36 Caliber Navy pistols. The confusion is over cylinder conversions to cartridge. Taylor's has them for 36 to 38 Long Colt. This is a REAL difficult caliber to find. IF you can find it. You can load your own but, I want the conversions for simplicity! I am interested in knowing if one could simply use factory 38 Special target wadcutter loads. Anybody know? If I can do this SAFELY, I also want to convert a pair of Cabelas BP snubnose revolvers on the Navy frame in 36 to 38. Use would be for CAS. Suggestions?:confused:
 
Let me start by saying that 38spl rnds are .358 and the .36 cal Remi bore is .375. There is a difference of .017. In CAS distances this diff won't make a huge diff. BUT--you might get leading big time, as the bullet will not seal in the bore and "bounce" back and forth. The way to fix this problem is to use hollow base boolits or get the bore sleeved to .358. The first is cheap the second is about $200/gun. Now there are two ways to fix it. One is to go ahead and load your own. I know a guy who shoots hollow based wadcutters that he load up. You can get about 14 to 14.5 grains of powder in a .38 case. This is cheap you just need a cheap press and de primeing die and a hand full of cases and bullets primers and powder. The other is to sleave the barrel to .357. This costs about 190-250 bucks. I have a Remington New Model Army (Incorrectly said to be a 1858 Remington) I have the R&D conversion. I mostly shoot precussion using 30 grains of FFFg Goex on a 200 grain Lee conical. My new load is a 30 grain Pryodex pellet lightly glued to the bullet then wrapped in a ciggeratte paper. this made loading almost as fast a a 1873 Peacemaker. But back to the load. I have a old Lee press I picked up for 15 bucks a .45 Colt die and hand deprimeing tool and a brass 24" powder funnel. I used to use modern .45 LC Cases but they will only wold about 28 grains of powder. I found a stash of old balloon head cases and I can get 34 grains in them. Stay with the BP or else get load data from the SASS for smokless. Just becasue you have a centerfire conversion you still have a BP frame. Be safe. The Remington 148gr HBWC is a great bullet for the .38 conversion is is accurate and the base expands nicely to seal the bore and prevent leading. The bad thing is the lube. It has a nasty black Moly based lube that clogs up a press in no time. Now lightly loaded facotry 38 spl HBWC will shoot ok. Black hills has a supply of CAS Legal rounds in stock. They are smokless and will shoot out of a BP Frame with out damage. The only damage is you wallet. It may be better to spring for a inexpensive reloading set for a pistol and then the money you svae in loading your own will buy a few more BP Revolvers!!!


Chuck

Edgewood NM
 
cant say for sure, but a friend had a colt lightning in 38lc that would chamber and shoot flush seated wadcutters just fine. I also shot a Smith M&P of 1899 on day an noticed that is was a bit hard to shove the specials all the way in. found out it was one of the military contract revolvers in 38lc.
 
Warning!
When it comes to OLD, original .38 Long Colt revolvers --- BEWARE.
Many of these fine, old guns were chambered with no shoulder in the chamber. This allows them to chamber .38 Special and .357 Magnum.
Just because it chambers doesn't necessarily mean it's safe.
However, in the case of low-powered (and low-pressured) .38 wadcutter loads with black powder you could probably get by provided the revolver is tight.
But why take the gamble?

As to the .38 Long Colt in a .36 Navy conversion.
The original .38 Long Colt cartridge used a heeled bullet. That is, a bullet with a stepped-in shank on the base. Only this part was loaded into the case. The rest of the bullet was outside the case and larger than this shank.
In the case of the .38 Long Colt, bullet diameter ranged from .376 to .381 diameter, according to vintage samples measured in "U.S. Cartridges and Their Handguns" by Charles Suydam.
I'm not sure what the bore diameter was in the older guns but it was probably slightly smaller than .375 inch.
The inside diameter of the .38 Long Colt case is about .355 inch. It was this very case that was lengthened slightly to create a new pistol cartridge about 1902: the .38 Special.
In the .38 Special, a bullet of about .357 inch is used.
For best accuracy in a .38 Long Colt revolver, use a heeled bullet. Moulds to cast your own heeled bullet are available from some specialty mould makers, such as NEI and Rapine.
If you use a heeled bullet, the case must be trimmed back to accommodate for the longer length of the bullet.
Heeled bullets are assembled onto the case without lubricant. Then, when the cartridge is assembled, the entire cartridge is up-ended up and the bullet is dipped into melted black powder lubricant. The bullet is held in this melted lubricant for a moment, then the entire cartridge is withdrawn and stood upright on a piece of wax paper.
This is done one-at-a-time for each cartridge.
Now, you can see how time consuming it can be to assemble ammunition with heeled bullets. I know, I make heeled bullet ammo in .32 Long Colt caliber for use in a Marlin Model 1892 rifle.
Perhaps a soft lead .38 Special bullet with a deep hollow base would bump up, upon firing, to fill the larger bore. I know that it works poorly in the .32 Long Colt and that heeled bullets give best accuracy.


Here's a thought:
Try experimenting with a conical bullet intended for the .36 Navy. Most such bullets already have a heel for an easy start in the chamber.
Two designs that come to mind are the Buffalo Bullet and the Lee. The heel would have to be about .358 diameter to grip the case securely.

Whatever bullet you use, it must be of soft lead when used with black powder. And, its lubricant must be made for black powder. Lubricants that may be used include Bore Butter, SPG, Lyman Black Powder Gold or a variety of home-brew recipes.
My favorite home-brew lubricant recipe is 1 part canning paraffin, 1 part mutton tallow and 1/2 part beeswax. All measurements are by weight. I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients and melt them in a quart Mason jar placed in 3 or 4 inches of boiling water in a pan.
This makes an excellent black powder lubricant for a variety of uses: bullets, felt wads, patches, etc.

Frankly, using a converted Colt Navy requires some effort to keep it well-fed. You just don't pop down to the store and buy a box of black powder cartridges, assembled with heel bullets, soft lead and black powder lubricant. It's requires a commitment.
But if you can get Navy converted to fire standard .38 Long Colt ammo (without a heeled bullet) that uses .38 Special bullets of .357 inch or so, that may be the way to go.
 
Gatofeo stated,............

Whatever bullet you use, it must be of soft lead when used with black powder. And, its lubricant must be made for black powder. Lubricants that may be used include Bore Butter, SPG, Lyman Black Powder Gold or a variety of home-brew recipes.
My favorite home-brew lubricant recipe is 1 part canning paraffin, 1 part mutton tallow and 1/2 part beeswax. All measurements are by weight. I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients and melt them in a quart Mason jar placed in 3 or 4 inches of boiling water in a pan.
This makes an excellent black powder lubricant for a variety of uses: bullets, felt wads, patches, etc.


Amen to that one. I have seen way to many good revolvers ruined by using hardcast bullets and the wrong lube. A general purpose lube I make is 60% beeswax and 40 % olive oil. I n the winter I flip it around. Keeps the old Remington happy and also does a good job on the old frontstuffer as well.

Chuck
 
I think VTI gunparts has some useful items. Further research suggests that the 51 Uberti Opentop cartridge hardened wedge and screw are worthy additions. I am thinking Black Hills 148 gr black powder rounds now. The wedge and screw are needed replacements. Factory loaded Black Hills 38 Long Colt and moosemilk seem to be what makes everything work. I will look into this some more.
 
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