Ok....serious advice needed about death threats..

[PCRCCW]

A member of my family has recieved death threats. He isnt directly related to me but has ties to my kids directly and their stability and well being. The person doing the threatening is a member of his family, directly.

Im seeking advice and also want feedback on a plan I have....its very legal so Im posting it here for analysis. Any active or retired Feds, State or Local LE's opinions are very much sought after.

Ill say this again...this is not hypathetical...this is happening as I type..........ok......so please save your sarcastic/joking comments for a more appropriate thread...............thanks.

Plan......

I want to have a massive email campaign to THR, CZForum, FNHiPower, 1911....etc members. 10-20 thousand members all over the world......
This email would contain the names, a pic and the state of the people who are giving the threats. It would also include the names of any member of our family that would be at risk of threat....me and my kids included and our general location.

Now....I will take out a large life insurance policy on each of those in question.....If anything should happen to ANY ONE OF US, a very large sum of money would go to a Reward Fund and would be given to anyone who cares to bring these lovely, classy people to justice.......how this happens isnt relevant to me.
As long as they are caught. The amount would be 25-50 K $.

I email this to thousands of gun people and now the grand part of the plan......
I CC it to the people doing the threats to make them aware of the situation they are in.............again, Im telling you this isnt a joke.............lives are at stake.

Id throw in a couple of Fed/State/Local agencies also on the email list............

A local and large paper may recieve a copy of it also..................

Ok...thats my plan.......please give me any good or bad that this plan has..............

Thank you from my very heart.........Shoot well

 

[Mr. Black]

That's probably a very bad idea. Sending mean things about a thrid party (that may or may not be true) to half the world will only get you in trouble.

Maybe document it all real good and have the threatened memebr push hard and hang the BG (s) out to dry civilly and criminally.

If it's across state lines is that not a federal beef?


But taking things into your own hands, and what you wrote soungs like you might (or might not; just sounds) consider basically hiring a killer; will probably get you into more throuble then they.

And advertising a do-it-yourself campaign is a unilaterally bad idea.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

You should be talking to the police instead of a gun forum. This is a matter for them to hear and advise you on the appropriate steps.

 

[jsalcedo]

Isn't it already illegal to make death threats?

If the law is unwilling to help you, your friends and family are left with defending yourself against attack.

I don't think an internet campaign would make much difference to an unstable mind and may increase hostility and provoke attack.

The best thing to do is report the threat makers, arm yourself
and cut off all further contact with the folks making the threats.

Best of luck and be safe.

 

[cordex]

I agree with the previous posts.

Take it to the cops. If they won't do anything, ask to talk to their superiors.

Keep going up the chain until you get results. After all ... a person's life is at stake here, right? Your time and effort is better spent by dealing with the authorities and watching six than essentially contracting a vengence hit, I think.

 

[PCRCCW]

Ok...points well taken.

Please let me state Im not a vigalante, looking for a contract hit or anything of the sort....................

Heres my reasoning for the post.............K?

Local LE has been notified..and a no contact/restraining order has been placed against the party mentioned previously.......

I just know how these things play out sometimes.............LE cant do anything or enough, unless its too late......and I want to avoid that.

My intentions with "my plan" were to dissuade the parties mentioned, from going forth to the point that "its too far"

Thats all.........I wanted to make them very aware that if they did persue this to ANY EXTENT that results in "a success in their eyes" that it would only be the beginning for them......not the end that they had indended to create..........is that wrong?

Thanks and Shoot well

 

[jsalcedo]

Anyone demented enough to make terroristic threats
will not be swayed by an internet campaign of complete stangers.

You are probably mistaken that the threat makers have any semblence of mental stability and can be reasoned with or scared off in this manner.

Is this an organized crime family?

If the cops won't help call the FBI and document fully anything that has happened up to this point.

 

[jdege]

You want his threats down on record, even if the authorities can't do anything much about them.

If it ever comes down to a life-and-death confrontation, the longer the record of violent threats he has, the better off you'll be.

The important thing to remember is how critical perception is. You want to make sure that you are perceived as a reasonable person who did everything he could to prevent the situation.

 

[PCRCCW]

No not ties to organized crime that are known.....just a psycho A&$*#le........
Good point......but some psychos are smart enough to know that if 20K people are aware of them being BG's, have guns and have a 50K reward on their head.........may think twice about it.

Shoot well

 

[Correia]

Personal gut feeling, some of the strangers you will be contacting over the internet are going to be even more deranged than the original threat. That has the potential to make things a whole lot worse.

I don't think you have a bad idea, but I think that I would keep it local, and with people you know and trust. Then let the threat know.

 

[Sheslinger]

I tend to agree, if his/her threats are mostly or all verbal but you put your intentions in writing, then you're the bad guy all of a sudden who is harassing them.

Sheslinger

 

[PCRCCW]

Ok.....and I agree totally...most people who make threats are just overblown jr. high bullies. The small % of people screwed up enough to actually threaten and go through with it is small but still a realistic possibility.

Corriea I like your idea........dont make it a global or Internet issue....but minimize the plan to friends/local area...............
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................................................

SaxonPig....Im not involving anyone other than those who read this thread....Ive kept it vague enough. All Ive done is run an idea by a bunch of very cool people, who have shown wisdom in alot of regards and may have dealt with this type of situation.
Thats all.......thanks for your reply.

Ill pass on...the only reason Im persuing this is this guy is a good guy.......he's been very good to my kids and doesnt deserve all of the ???? that goes with this situation. Neither do my kids.............

This weekend the people who are the threatened will have a gun and know how to use it......................This is the least I can do.

Thanks and shoot well

 

[Penman]

Since they have made threats of bodily harm and death, you can get the Feds involved. If they have used the USPS to send threats, you can notify the Postal Inspectors. Using the internet or phones can bring this into Federal jurisdiction, even if they and the victim are in the same area. The Feds (FBI) consider the internet to be a national system, and by using it they can come under Federal jurisdiction. First contact your local PD. Some departments are not really up to speed on computer/internet issues, and in that case you may want to resort to the Feds. Each threatening message can be a seperate count in an indictment. PM or e_mail me if you want to discuss this further.

 

[Sheslinger]

Depends on what kind of a police officer you get when filing a complaint. My brother is a police officer in MD and when he first started out, this woman was getting all these threats in her email. The complaint to the police was buried in a pile of others but she got him on the phone when she called to follow up. He asked if he could try and solve the case and no one really minded. He managed to track the company, from which emails have originated, down through 3 different third parties. Luckily, they only had 30 people employed, two males (the profile was a white male, etc). He gave the list to the victim, hoping that she would recognize a name. It ended up being a woman, former co-worker in, yet, another state (MI or IL, not sure). He called the woman in CA and basically told her that it is now over and that she has to come to MD and face charges. She did not admit to making threats but asked if she could pay some kind of a fine to take this off her record. He told her that they would try and exradite her (which will never happen for such a crime but he said it felt good to tell her that). I asked why he was filing charges in MD if she was not going to be given up by CA and he said that if they do, then anytime she is pulled over for a traffic violation, a cop would see "wanted in MD" and handcuff her and put her in the back until he can call MD and find out what the charges are. The woman also got fired from her job in CA.

Bottom line, the complaint might be buried, but on the other hand, if you get a sympathetic soul, it can't hurt to go that route, so you have documented history. They should be able to help if they want to, heck, my brother even subpoenaed Yahoo in the process.

Sheslinger

 

[Betty]

I agree with the other posters that your internet campaign is not a good idea.

I've been here before, though the person in my situation was a little craftier in wording his threats. "Die" became "take you out" or "finish things."

Your relative needs to keep a complete detailed log on all harrassing phone calls and events. BE DILIGENT! When a death threat is made, call the police. They'll file their report. Another death threat? Call the police again. When the police reports start piling up, it'll be easier for an Order of Protection to be made. Of course, it's just a piece of paper and not a kevlar vest. Sometimes the person making the threats will know you're serious then, and back off. Maybe it'll make him escalate.

Tell your relative to stay alert, vary his (or her) schedule and normal driving routes. If he isn't armed, he should be, or have some kind of defensive tool. Perimeter motion activated lights outside the house, large barking dog, and sturdy locks on the doors can help. Notifying neighbors to keep an eye out for undesirable people wandering around your property is also a good idea. If this person has kids going to school, than the kids need to learn to stay away from the person making the threats, and to have plans on what to do should they be confronted.

 

[Darrin]

Personally, I wouldn't want to advertise to a bunch of strangers that I have a life insurance policy on myself or a loved one. Much less the amount.

Have your relative keep detailed notes of each threat that is made. Time, date, description of threat, etc... Call the police each time it happens. If you can't get the sympathetic soul, the amount of paperwork that's filed each time will wake the LEOs up and take notice.


EDIT: Dangit runt, you posted the same thing I said, but better, while I was typing!

 

[pytron]

Not sure if it would help in this case, but perhaps concealed body-armor (from Second Chance) wouldn't be a bad idea. They can always re-sell it after the threat is gone.

-Pytron

 

[Andy Stedman]

Provide the potential victim with a copy of Gavin DeBecker's book, The Gift of Fear. An eye-opening book on the ineffectiveness of restraining orders, common-sense ways of staying safe, cutting off ties to potential threats, etc.

Excellent despite couple of anti-gun sentences in the book.

Andy

 

[Jeeper]

Definately dont send out an email like that. You could be sued for Libel since you are in essence publishing a derogatory statement. Eventhough the truth is a defense you could still get a suit against you which would be a royal pain. You might even lose if you couldn't prove everything you said. That and the fact the internet if full of a bunch of weird people.

 

[12GA]

That and the fact the internet if full of a bunch of weird people.

 

[gryphon]

Another option, although sometimes can be expensive, are personal investigators and/or body guarding services. If you're looking to nail this BG on something, the the PI could probably dig that up. The body guard would just be there to protect person, but if something did "go down" then you would have an objective third party to corroborate your incident.

 

[Smurfslayer]

sage advice here

You should immediately contact the local police, advise them of the situation - everything, don't leave out any convenient details -

It's been my experience that overt threats to people where either women or children are involved is not looked upon favorably by the legal system in it's entirety. While I think way too many cops spend way too much time running radar, 90% of them would try to help, not just take a report...

If you can substantiate the threat(s) get a protective order ... yes, they're worthless, but, they do effectively disarm the offender or make him a felon... If you don't already have a 12 gauge, get one. Yesterday. Buckshot too.

At the very minimum, you should have an awareness briefing with your family, kids included. Maybe the neighbors... Make sure the police officer that takes the info understands that you are in fear for your life, safety & that of your children.

Some states have laws specifically outlawing threats by phone, electronic media etc... and these can help... leave no avenue unpursued... It certainly wouldn't hurt to talk to a lawyer too, they may be able to provide you with some specific help...

HTH

 

[NukemJim]

Take it to the cops. If they won't do anything, ask to talk to their superiors.

By all means take it to the Police/FBI/USPS Inspectors and any other legal agency you can involve.

Document, document document.

Get and order of protection or whatever you can.

However I would be darn sure to have other legal options that do NOT depend on LEOs. I say this having been through such a situation with someone threatening my life a number of years ago. The LEOs may want to help, you may even be lucky and find one who will attempt to help. but from my experience they usually cannot help.

NOT THEIR FAULT ( usually ).

They usually cannot help until their is serious carnage commited.

The DeBecker book is an excellent book to read to help with evaluation of threats. I would also suggest some of M Ayoobs' books on self protection. The idea of having a PI/Bodyguard is not bad if you can afford it. Definetly having someone around the threatened person at ALL times is a real good idea. That way there is a witness which can discourage some people, though not all.

I do not have any other good suggestions except to prepare to defend your relative LEGALLY.

Good luck

NukemJim

 

[Stay Low]

Why the threats? Not trying to be nosy but an idea of the situaiton may help define a better answer.

 

[Pilgrim]

I asked why he was filing charges in MD if she was not going to be given up by CA and he said that if they do, then anytime she is pulled over for a traffic violation, a cop would see "wanted in MD" and handcuff her and put her in the back until he can call MD and find out what the charges are. The woman also got fired from her job in CA.

From my experience the chore is getting the prosecuting attorney to agree to go after the suspect in another state. If the prosecuting attorney will not issue a felony extraditable warrant, the warrant will not show up in NCIC. Therefore, the cop in the suspect's state will never know there is a warrant.