OK, so here's what I did in the bank robbery...

[afsnco]

Just a small point: Isn't it rather socialistic to consider money robbed from a bank "somebody else's money?" Wasn't he going to cash a paycheck, implying that it was HIS bank? Who pays off an FDIC claim for robbed funds? Isn't it us, ultimately, John Q. Public?

Isn't that one of the reasons you didn't want a posse on your trail after a bank robbery in the Old West? That posse is coming after you to the ends of the earth, because you robbed THEIR money.

All that being said, I think the writer did exactly right in these circumstances, but not because it's "somebody else's money." His tactical situation was lousy, not knowing how many perps were involved, their deployment inside the bank, whether they had shoulder weapons, etc. So the smart thing was to beat feet and call in the cavalry.

 

[FreedomKommando]

I simply said (in his original thread) that I've drawn my conclusions based upon the extreme unlikeliness of said event occuring to a particular individual, ...

A healthy skepticism is always in order, especially when reading something on the internet. No offense taken, no apology needed. That's why in my second post I gave more details so that the event could be verified.

As for whether I was actually there, well I suppose I could post my cellular bill showing a 911 call at 3:50 pm a few weeks ago...

 

[tellner]

Just a small point: Isn't it rather socialistic to consider money robbed from a bank "somebody else's money?" Wasn't he going to cash a paycheck, implying that it was HIS bank? Who pays off an FDIC claim for robbed funds? Isn't it us, ultimately, John Q. Public?

Socialistic? Wha' ? You're reaching. It would be 'socialistic' to say "I have some responsibility for others even if it doesn't personally benefit me. Common good and all that." At the other extreme it would capitalismatic to say "Bugger you, Jack. I'm alright."

The bank did not belong to him. I doubt that he's a major shareholder. He's a customer. If he were standing in line at the local Shop 'n Rob should he have leaped into action, guns blazing, if someone had grabbed the cash drawer? Besides, it's called the FDIC because it's an Insurance Corporation. Shared risk. It's their job to cover incidents like this. It's not some customer's job to risk his life to protect money that belongs to the bank.

Isn't that one of the reasons you didn't want a posse on your trail after a bank robbery in the Old West? That posse is coming after you to the ends of the earth, because you robbed THEIR money.

Watch fewer movies. Read more books. How often did that ever really happen. If there is no law the vigilance committee is a poor third or fourth choice. In the days when banks were uninsured you might have had a point, but even then it was usually the sheriff's posse - men deputized as officers of the law under his authority.

All that being said, I think the writer did exactly right in these circumstances, but not because it's "somebody else's money." ... *snip*

Once again, it was someone else's money. He doesn't own the bank. If the bank's officers aren't willing to die to protect him he shouldn't be a fool and die to protect a tiny fraction of their insured cash. Tactical placement? Shoulder weapons? You weren't there. He was. He kept his head about him and did pretty darned well. Until you do please stop sniping at him.

 

[aguyindallas]

I think you did great overall. I still feel that being a little more aware and certainly trusting your INSTANT gut feeling would have been a little bit safer. In the end, you are still alive and that is really all that matters. I know I am also impressed that you didnt draw your weapon when you were facing the business end of one.

The thing that comes to mind is if it were the right situation, would you draw and fire if needed? I would think a situation like this would certainly drive me into more training (which I will admit I need more anyway) in the area of tactics, strategies, etc...

Overall, I think you did a good job and since you are alive to tell about it, even better.

Be safe.

 

[afsnco]

tellner,

Do we have a bonafide socialist in our midst? Given your comparative definitions of socialism and capitalism, it would seem so. Socialism carried to its logical conclusion is a murderous worldview. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot were all good socialists, and they murdered 100+ million.

Socialists generally don't like gun ownership, so why are you on this board?

You can't be so dense that you didn't see that I applauded what the guy did. Or are you just upset that I castigated your precious morally bankrupt worldview?

 

[FJC]

Any news story links about this robbery?

 

[tellner]

A genuine socialist? Eh, not really. I just get really, really tired of the way that everything to the Left of Francisco Franco and Ivan the Terrible is trashed, lied about, distorted and turned into a straw man. I certainly support much of the policies of the original Socialist Party Platform. But then again, so would nearly everyone on this board. Honest. Take a look at it. Things like a Department of Labor Statistics, the right of people to overturn laws and recall elected officials, that sort of thing.

Of course Socialism means many different things and encompasses a number of often contradictory movements. And no, that isn't an excuse to say "Real Socialism is a checklist of everything evil and oppressive. We like everything that's good, and we're not Socialist, so nyah-nyah-nyah!" which is how this usually goes.

Socialists against gun ownership? Many are, yes. Much of it is historical accident arising from the horrors of WWI and the fact that it was Capital that had most of the guns and did the killing. The brutal oppression of anyone left of center with any sort of militant political rhetoric whether or not they ever did anything about it starting in the 19-teens, continuing under Gay Edgar Hoover and moving on to the present day weeded out the gun-friendly Lefties pretty thoroughly.

I will probably end up sent to Guantanamo or extraordinarly renditioned to Egypt for this, but here's my little Socialist Gun Owner's Manifesto...

Under a Capitalist system Capital and the rich have a complete monopoly on the use of force. The Army, the Police, the Legislature and for the most part the Courts do their bidding. They can kill with wide impunity, and that power is often directed at the working class and the poor to keep them in line. El Espadron de la Muerte(sp?) gets guns. The campesinos die. When one group has all the killers you have the foundations of eternal tyranny.

Therefore it behooves anyone who isn't a slave of the wealthy elite to jealously defend the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Armed revolution is almost always a losing proposition with bloody consequences for the the People. But the capacity for defense against oppressors must be preserved for the gravest extremes. On a different level, everyone has one precious irreplaceable life whether rich or poor. The lives of the wealthy are surrounded by the guns of the military, the law and private security. If the lives of the humble are of equal worth they must at least be defended by their own arms.

 

[FreedomKommando]

El Espadron de la Muerte(sp?) gets guns.

El esquadrón de la muerte.

When I talk to someone with lefty politics who has perhaps unthinkingly absorbed the anti-gun bias so prevalent on the left, I ask them why they are so eager to disarm the working class.

"So you think that only the police, military and intelligence agencies should be allowed to have guns because...we can trust them?"

 

[gspn]

I don't care if it's the UN-insured money of widows and orphans...if it's just money...let them have it. It's not worth anybody's life to get in a shootout over a bag of money. You did everything right man. Have a well deserved beer.

 

[FrogClan]

Any news story links about this robbery?

I looked (Google news search), but was unsuccessful.

 

[FreedomKommando]

I looked (Google news search), but was unsuccessful.

Right after it happened the story was reported on a local TV station and on its website, but I can't remember which one. Local stations are two, 11, and 13.

If anyone needs to clear up lingering doubts, call the bank or the HPD to confirm.

 

[x3m]

bank robbery

well i live in a small village in south africa , on a nice day some four years ago a group of seven bank robbers decided to clean out the local bank.
as they were entering the bank one of the tellers pushed her panic button , a local cop 300 meters up the street eating his donut at the cafe heard the call on the radio and as he ran down to the bank he notified locals, most around here are always armed , i was in the library across the street from the bank , by the time i heard the first shot it was under two mins before the two cops on the scene helped by locals with everything from shotguns to 9mm's had killed 6 of the robbers , the seventh was badly wounded as he sped away a guy with a sawed off shotgun took out his windscreen and most of his face , he was caught one hour later in the next town.now that is how criminals should be dealt with . to hell with them who are they anyway. most of the local posse that took part in this little wild west episode all agreed that it wasnt about the money , it was about the cheeck these bastards had to think they could come here and do what they wanted. plus it was good live excersise

 

[ronto]

IT DOES HAPPEN FAST

5 or 6 years ago I was the only customer in the bank,which happens to be near a Freeway Entrance ramp,calmly filing out my deposit slip. Out of the corner of my eye I hardly noticed a guy walk rapidly past me directly to the teller and very soon thereafter heading for the door. Still in the process of filing out the slip ( I only had one check to deposit) the next thing I look up and the teller is crying and shaking all over, the branch manager rushes to lock the doors,someone is throwing a sheet of plastic over the counter where the guy was. So I asked the dumb question "What happened?". All this happened and I still wasn't finished filing out the deposit slip.
To the phrase"S##t Happens" should be added FAST.
If I was aware it was a robbery I don't think I would have played hero and probably gotten myself or a bank employee killed or wounded.According to the manager,the guy didn't show a gun but said he had one. I would tend to beleive him.
P.S. I had no weapon on my person and living in California at the time the robber was reasonably sure I didn't.

 

[kengrubb]

Isn't it rather socialistic to consider money robbed from a bank "somebody else's money?"

Robber-Barron capitalism says kick a man when he's down. So ya let the robbery go down, and when the stock drops, ya buy.

On a serious note, use of deadly force against a bank robber is a not a socioeconomic matter. It's a criminal justice matter.

I don't know what's in your wallet, but there's no badge in mine. No big red 'S' on my chest, no cape and no tights.

I have no moral obligation to risk my life, risk leaving my wife widowed and my kids without their father because the bank Board of Directors chooses to play the numbers and tell their employees to give up the money. Even armed bank guards, on the rare occasion they are present, don't start blasting bank robbers when they announce a robbery.

If bank robbers ever got smart, they'd stop robbing banks and start hitting armored cars. In 1997, a collection of half-wits pulled off the second largest money heist in U.S. history. $17 million stolen from Wells Loomis in Charlotte, NC. If it weren't for them being half-wits, they might have gotten away with it. Heist!: The $17 Million Loomis Fargo Theft is now on my to read list.

Bank robbers tend NOT to come in blasting. They just want the money. The Discovery Channel's FBI Files (episode 86, season 6) did an episode titled Without Mercy in which the robbers did come in blasting. Synopsis of it reads "Two masked men who were robbing a bank opened fire on officers responding to a call. The gunmen eluded the officers. When the FBI responded, agents found one bank teller dead, another wounded, and the bank’s security guard shot four times." I watched it, and posted a recap with observations on WA-CCW.

 

[evan price]

I liked my version better.

 

[Boom-stick]

I walked into the bank and said

"EVERYBODY HIT THE GROUND, THIS IS A ROBBERY!!!"

 

[Grump]

Thread Drift:

If "Capital" is so exclusively in favor of guarding the rich and privileged and allowing the poor to destroy each other.....


sohowcome in the US of A, the vast majority of our "officer down" situations are in the ghetto or the barrio or Chinatown, with office Whitey getting shot, clubbed, knifed, or dying to protect the poor minority folks?

I just wanna know how that inconvenient fact fits the worldview of "social revolution."

 

[mmike87]

Glad it worked out for you.

I understand what you're saying in regards to protecting the bank's money - but when the bad guy points HIS gun at YOU you are then protecting yourself - not the bank!

 

[PCGS65]

I'm really suprised nobody said go in and start shooting. I know of some people that are just waiting for the chance to be "the shootout hero"
Another vote for doing the right thing.
If ya started a gunfight and innocent people got hurt you might be liable? Not being a LEO and all.