Old 9mm brass update….here goes

vaalpens said:
Thanks for the explanation.

I though maybe we went from "bulged" to "overly expanded" because we don't want to offend Glock shooters, since "bulged" cases were associated with Glock barrels.
Click to expand...
Actually, the “Glock Belly” 9mm’s were mostly made by improperly “improved” small frame S&W Shields. Home gunsmiths and other yayhoos trying to fix feeding issues in the steep-angled feed ramps by “polishing” the ramps.

But, more to the point, lots of smaller framed 9mm have unsupported chambers at the feed ramp where the arc of the ramp cuts a “smiley” into the chamber. IIRC, the concealed carry sized Glocks were the least offenders. Their chambers are actually fairly well supported at the ramps.

I don’t recall the article I saw mentioning that but it was around 2013. The “smiley” is perfectly normal and you will find that almost every semiautomatic pistol has a section of unsupported cartridge brass in the same spot. This means it’s not the gun or the brass but the loads. Trying to make a 9mm Magnum wasn’t such a great idea maybe?
 
Zendude said:
I have been trying the U die for a few months. It results in a slight hourglass shape to the loaded rounds. Since 9mm is tapered, the amount of undersizing can be adjusted by backing the die out very slightly when setting it.
The only reason I tried it was because every once in a while I would be able to induce an amount of set back on a finished round that I wasn't comfortable with (more than say, 0.002). Since it was an infrequent occurrence I tried the U die as an alternative to sorting brass. I haven't experienced any instances of setback so far.
The downside I am noticing is that I'm getting more cracked brass after resizing. Not a bunch, but a few more than I have previously experienced, which doesn't surprise me.
So, like most equipment, the U die seems to have its advantages and disadvantages.
Click to expand...
Me to…six months or so. I’ve also been using the same batch of 200 Winchester cases. I don’t expand either. But I’ve never had a split case. That’s ever, regardless of sizing die.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Actually, the “Glock Belly” 9mm’s were mostly made by improperly “improved” small frame S&W Shields. Home gunsmiths and other yayhoos trying to fix feeding issues in the steep-angled feed ramps by “polishing” the ramps.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see that article if you can find it.

I was seeing lots of "Glocked smiles" on brass long before I bought my first Shield in 2013 and they were introduced in 2012. Not saying they all were caused by Glock either, I know they weren't. Other imports were causing them also.
Glocks were introduced in 1986, about the same time the complaints started. Just saying.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/anyone-have-a-pic-of-the-infamous-glock-smile.1203067/ see the date on the this article.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I'd like to see that article if you can find it.

I was seeing lots of "Glocked smiles" on brass long before I bought my first Shield in 2013 and they were introduced in 2012. Not saying they all were caused by Glock either, I know they weren't. Other imports were causing them also.
Glocks were introduced in 1986, about the same time the complaints started. Just saying.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/anyone-have-a-pic-of-the-infamous-glock-smile.1203067/ see the date on the this article.
Click to expand...
The Marlin Camp Carbine was the worst offender before the Glock hit the market. I know because I had one.
 
vaalpens said:
Is "overly expanded" the same as a case with a "bulge"?

Those cases looked like what I experienced with range 357sig cases. De-bulging before resizing fixed the issue for me.
Click to expand...
That is not the same thing as the Glock/guppy bulge. I had the same issue that LiveLife's picture showed with 357 sig and 40 unless I roll sized them first.
 
Over the last few days i bought some Sport Pistol and Accurate #7 and loaded 75 9mm 124gn FMJ RN.
25 with sport pistol in new Remington brass
25 with Accurate #7 in random range pickup
25 with CFE P in the old Win brass disregarding the 400+ i already have.
Went to the range yesterday with my FPC 9mm and chrono and began the test.
1st was Sport Pistol shooting 1290 fps
2nd was Accurate #7 shooting 1325 fps
3rd was CFE P in the old Win brass which actually exploded on the very first round.
Yep, thats right, first round went boom in the exact same place as the others. The FPC survived and i shot all the factory Hornady hollow points i fixed a couple weeks ago.

In my opinion the old brass is the culprit. Its the only brass im having issues with and i have tested to the hilt and checked every single possible human error that would contribute to this failure.
So far ive pulled 250 projectiles in hopes of salvaging them. As far as the powder, brass and primer i guess i take a loss and dump the powder but the brass and primer ill make some hot glue balls and have some fun.
 

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Not to muddy the waters, but if you are loading 9mm to anything close to 1300 fps, you are in +P+ / major country. Way past what would be found as Max in any 9mm load manual. Eventually something fails, and it looks like the old brass is the weakest link?
 
Howa 9700 said:
Not to muddy the waters, but if you are loading 9mm to anything close to 1300 fps, you are in +P+ / major country. Way past what would be found as Max in any 9mm load manual. Eventually something fails, and it looks like the old brass is the weakest link?
Click to expand...
That was my first reaction, too, but he was shooting an FPC which has a 16-1/2" barrel. So, more reasonable than it looks at first glance.
 
9mmGoon said:
Over the last few days i bought some Sport Pistol and Accurate #7 and loaded 75 9mm 124gn FMJ RN.
25 with sport pistol in new Remington brass
25 with Accurate #7 in random range pickup
25 with CFE P in the old Win brass disregarding the 400+ i already have.
Went to the range yesterday with my FPC 9mm and chrono and began the test.
1st was Sport Pistol shooting 1290 fps
2nd was Accurate #7 shooting 1325 fps
3rd was CFE P in the old Win brass which actually exploded on the very first round.
Yep, thats right, first round went boom in the exact same place as the others. The FPC survived and i shot all the factory Hornady hollow points i fixed a couple weeks ago.

In my opinion the old brass is the culprit. Its the only brass im having issues with and i have tested to the hilt and checked every single possible human error that would contribute to this failure.
So far ive pulled 250 projectiles in hopes of salvaging them. As far as the powder, brass and primer i guess i take a loss and dump the powder but the brass and primer ill make some hot glue balls and have some fun.
Click to expand...

Did you try the Win brass with a different powder. It's my under standing CFE-P has problems when you push it too hard. Or the powder with a different mfg at the same load.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Not to muddy the waters, but if you are loading 9mm to anything close to 1300 fps, you are in +P+ / major country. Way past what would be found as Max in any 9mm load manual. Eventually something fails, and it looks like the old brass is the weakest link?
Click to expand...
Thats out of a 16” barrel
 
9mmGoon said:
Over the last few days i bought some Sport Pistol and Accurate #7 and loaded 75 9mm 124gn FMJ RN.
25 with sport pistol in new Remington brass
25 with Accurate #7 in random range pickup
25 with CFE P in the old Win brass disregarding the 400+ i already have.
Went to the range yesterday with my FPC 9mm and chrono and began the test.
1st was Sport Pistol shooting 1290 fps
2nd was Accurate #7 shooting 1325 fps
3rd was CFE P in the old Win brass which actually exploded on the very first round.
Yep, thats right, first round went boom in the exact same place as the others. The FPC survived and i shot all the factory Hornady hollow points i fixed a couple weeks ago.

In my opinion the old brass is the culprit. Its the only brass im having issues with and i have tested to the hilt and checked every single possible human error that would contribute to this failure.
So far ive pulled 250 projectiles in hopes of salvaging them. As far as the powder, brass and primer i guess i take a loss and dump the powder but the brass and primer ill make some hot glue balls and have some fun.
Click to expand...
Glad you got it. Now go forth and multiply (your stash;) )!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
 
243winxb said:
My RCBS 9mm Luger sizer has a long tapered carbide insert, keeps the taper in the case body. Others may also? Measure a sized case. Has an M type expander also.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/taurus-g3c-9mm-luger.317/

​

Click to expand...

LiveLife said:
Lee 9mm carbide sizer ring is tapered as well and resizes brass to smooth tapered finish. And while official announcement has not been made, new 9mm die sets are shipping with stepped "M" style "Square Starting" powder through expanders (Call and ask customer service to be sure).

index.php


Same here with Lee tapered carbide sizer ring and different types of bullets 👍

index.php


What non-tapered straight carbide ring could do to "overly expanded" 9mm brass

index.php
Click to expand...

It’ll be nice if Dillon redesigned their dies, since they supposedly have newer carbide suppliers.

Getting annoyed looking at the cosmetic failings of my handloads…
 
9mmGoon said:
Over the last few days i bought some Sport Pistol and Accurate #7 and loaded 75 9mm 124gn FMJ RN.
25 with sport pistol in new Remington brass
25 with Accurate #7 in random range pickup
25 with CFE P in the old Win brass disregarding the 400+ i already have.
Went to the range yesterday with my FPC 9mm and chrono and began the test.
1st was Sport Pistol shooting 1290 fps
2nd was Accurate #7 shooting 1325 fps
3rd was CFE P in the old Win brass which actually exploded on the very first round.
Yep, thats right, first round went boom in the exact same place as the others. The FPC survived and i shot all the factory Hornady hollow points i fixed a couple weeks ago.

In my opinion the old brass is the culprit. Its the only brass im having issues with and i have tested to the hilt and checked every single possible human error that would contribute to this failure.
So far ive pulled 250 projectiles in hopes of salvaging them. As far as the powder, brass and primer i guess i take a loss and dump the powder but the brass and primer ill make some hot glue balls and have some fun.
Click to expand...
You can knock the primers out and reuse them.
If you know what powder you used why dump it?
What are you going to do with the bad brass?
 
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