quote: Old Cartridge load-Black Powder
Hi guys, I have three old break tops from my Grandfather and have been told the original loads were black powder.
.32 S&W Short & .38 S&W.
Where can I find a box of each loaded with the recommended black powder?
I don't care to shoot these much but would like to toss a few rounds down range for old times sake.
Yes, the guns are in excellent condition and timed and locking up great.
Thanks.
Gary
this is a very old thread but worth reviving, I have recently dissected a few 38SW rounds that were blackpowder factory loads, they had between 10 to 12 grains of 3F blackpowder in them. Just enough to fill the case to the bottom of the bullet. They had 126 grain and 146 grain soft lead bullets in them, and were loaded by Remington-UMC.
what I find odd is, there were many replies but not a single one answering what the OP asked. Lots of replies about how to load cap/ball revolvers, and how smokeless powder burns different than BP, but that has nothing to do with top break 32SW and 38SW chambered pistols.
I own 5 vintage 38SW and 32SW top break pistols, and have some first hand experience with them. I also have a quantity of 32SW and 38SW original factory ammo that is blackpowder loaded and will dissect them next and post the answer.
if you reload for a top break pistol using modern smokeless powder, the old Lyman reloading manual states that you should not exceed their "starting loads" for smokeless powder.
A good rule of thumb is for smokeless pistol powder is, 2 grains maximum powder charge for the 38SW, and 1 grain maximum for the 32SW.
but if you are loading them with blackpowder, you can fill the case with 3F and compress it with the bullet and it should be just fine. The pistols are certainly strong enough to withstand blackpowder compressed loads, being they are very low pressure and velocity.
use CAST LEAD bullets. I would not recommend hard copper jacketed bullets in a top break pistol, as the bullet friction in the barrel is another factor, and can lead to stretched frames and latches.
I have dissected a modern smokeless 38SW load and it had 2.5 grains of powder behind a 146 grain soft lead bullet, I removed 1/2 grain of powder, then re-assembled the round and fired it. I wouldn't exceed 2 grains of powder just to preserve the old guns, and 2 grains of smokeless in a top break 38SW is plenty.
you could "probably" get away shooting modern smokeless factory rounds in a top break, as they were and are "loaded down" for decades now, with the old guns in mind, but just to be safe I'd reduce it to 2 grains/38 and 1 grain/32
the problem is if you get a box of factory ammo that is loaded on the hot side, it stretches the frame down by the lower hinge pin area, just below the cylinder and the gun then won't close without filing the locking lugs on the top back of the latch area, on the frame. I have also heard reports of stretched oval latch screw holes from hot handloads but have not experienced it myself.
that is the risk of overloading a top break. I don't think modern ammo will blow up a cylinder on an old SW pistol, they were of rather high quality and metallurgy- but it may eventually stretch the frame. the other cheaper saturday night special boot guns, that's another story, those may blow up a cylinder with a smokeless factory load, and I have read reports of them doing such to quite a few guys. One guy blew one up tied to a fence post firing it with a string, another guy was holding one firing by hand, next shot there were no open sights to aim with, it blew the top strap off the gun- and it was a full frame 32, but a cheapie from the 1800's.
that means is you buy modern smokeless ammo, you should shoot it in a newer stronger gun, made after the switch was done to smokeless powder, to get the empty cases to reload for an older top break- or you have to laboriously pull all the bullets and reduce the powder charges in the factory smokeless loads, and re-assemble before firing in a top break- or simply buy empty cases to reload- another option is buy old blackpowder rounds and shoot those off, then use the cases to reload for smokeless reduced charges
the way to tell a smokeless case, from a blackpowder case, is the cannelure on the case itself- a smokeless round will have a cannelure (crease) in the case, and it's there to act as bottom support for the heeled bullet when its seated. That's because there is a lot of air space in a smokeless 32SW or 38SW factory cartridge.
an old BP loaded round, will be smooth on the side of the brass- because they were usually packed full of blackpowder and the bullet compressed the powder, and the powder supported the bullet- there was no need for a cannelure. This holds true for cartridges made up to around 1940.