old Winchester 97...slugs?

[StorkPatrol]

I'm not much of a shotgun guy...content with my 870 house gun. A buddy of mine just got an old Winchester 97 from his father-in-law. Pretty cool gun. I recognized it right away because it looks like the WWI trench gun except with a long barrel and no heat shield. We shot some clays with it last week and had a ton of fun. My friend wants the gun to double as a house gun. I recommended the usual 00 buck for a HD load, but I am unsure if the gun will safely shoot slugs.

Does a choke make shooting slugs unsafe?

If so, how can I tell if his gun has a choke?

Anything else I should be aware of?

Next time I'm at his house, we are going to take the gun apart and figure out how it works. Thanks in advance for your shared knowledge.

--Stork

 

[Fred Fuller]

Next time I'm at his house, we are going to take the gun apart and figure out how it works.

Stork,

That's a John Moses Browning design. An OLD JMB design. Those statements mean something to folks who know guns.

They mean the Winchester Model 1897 has lots of parts. Lots of SMALL parts, lots of easy to damage, easy to lose, easy to confuse small parts. See the exploded drawing at http://www.wisnersinc.com/exploded_views/Winc_97.htm .

This ISN'T one you want to take apart to see how it works. As long AS it works, be satisfied with it. Think of it as a senior citizen... .

But before you shoot it any more, do yourselves a favor. Make sure it has a 2 3/4" chamber, before you go shooting any more modern shells in it. A lot of the older guns had shorter chambers than 2 3/4" and it might not be good to push longer shells through them than they were designed to handle. Consult a good gunsmith if you need help making that determination, and let him go over the gun to make sure all is well with it while you are at it.

But do the old gun a favor, and leave it intact. Satisfy your curiosity by looking at the diagram linked above and visualizing the working relationship of the parts.

hth,

lpl

 

[StorkPatrol]

Thanks for the advice on not taking it apart. Heeded. Is there a tool that measures chamber length for shotguns?
--Stork

 

[ReloaderFred]

Lee Lapin gave you good advice. My wife and I shoot Model 97's in Cowboy Action Shooting and own four of these magnificent guns. Her gun was made in 1899, and is a solid frame, and mine is newer, made in 1912, and is a take-down. My Black Diamond trap gun was made in the 20's and I have a spare that was made in 1922.

Your friend's gun is most likely chambered 2 5/8", and those were roll crimped shells, not star crimped, which adds another 1/8" to the shell. They had short forcing cones, so when a modern 2 3/4" star crimped shell is fired in them, there is about 1/4" of the shell mouth in the forcing cone. The shot charge has to get by this plastic material, and I bet if you look at the shells you fired through it, the crimps are going to be shredded. This greatly increases pressure.

Any good gunsmith who deals in shotguns will have a chamber gauge and can tell you if this gun is chambered for 2 5/8" shells or 2 3/4" shells. My bet is it's going to be 2 5/8".

Look on the barrel, just in front of the frame. The choke should be imprinted right there. Most were choked for FULL, but I have seen some that were choked MODIFIED.

As Lee noted, these guns are put together like a fine watch. There are screws in there that modern screw makers have difficulty duplicating. You'll also want to check and see if this is a solid frame gun or a take-down. If it's a take-down, then check to see if there's any play between the frame and barrel. There is an adjustment built into these guns, and if it's loose, continued shooting will crack the frame. The adjustment is a toothed piece of metal, with a small screw that holds it. By moving the toothed piece, you can tighten or loosen the fit between the two halves. Unless you know what you're doing, you shouldn't mess with this. A gunsmith familiar with Model 97's will know what to do.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[DANNO45]

I have an old 1897 that I bought in a pawn shop back in sixties. How do I tell when it was made? The last patent date imprinted on the barrel is Oct 16, 1900. It is a takedown with a full choke and a looong barrel.

I am considering having the barrel shortened for use as a home defense gun. Any pros or cons to that?

 

[ReloaderFred]

You can tell the year of manufacture by the serial number. There are several lists, but I don't remember where I found it on the internet. I printed out all the lists I could find for Winchester serial numbers and keep it in a binder, just for that purpose.

If you're going to shoot modern loads in that old 97, you need to review my post in #4.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[DANNO45]

Thanks. I've fired it many times using the shorter shells. Shoots just fine.

 

[DANNO45]

I found a couple of the lists. They disagree. Either 1911 or 1912. That's close enough for me though.

I notice that the takedown extension has a different number engraved on it. Possibly a replaced part or is it even supposed to match the serial number?

 

[ReloaderFred]

All the serial numbers should match. If the serial number on the barrel group doesn't match the receiver serial number, then it's a replacement part.

As long as they fit tightly, it's safe to fire. There should be no play whatsoever between the two parts. If you can feel some play between the parts, or when you put them back together, then it needs adjustment. If it goes back together tightly, then it's ok.

If your fired shells have shredded crimps, then the chamber is too short. You might want to take a look at that.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[DANNO45]

Thanks, Fred.

I measured the chamber. 2 3/4 inches.

StorkPatrol: I used the back of a Marks-a-Lot (a highly technical chamber gauge, hee hee) inserted into the chamber until it caught on the beginning of the bore and measured that depth.

 

[zoom6zoom]

There's a pretty good AGI video available for the 97... even after watching it I don't want to try tearing mine down.