Older Colt Pythons

[IWAC]

I am reading a well written series of books, where the hero carries an older Colt Python, with the hammer over an empty cylinder, making it a 5 shooter "for safety". That is something new to me...I've never heard of a a Python or even a Smith 19 or 29 needing to be carried over an empty chamber, like the Single Action Army guns. Can someone give me the straight scoop?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Ridiculous. All vintage Pythons are built on the Colt I-frame which has the firing pin in the frame and a hammer block. Any hit hard enough to defeat the block would snap off the hammer spur first. No reason to carry one with an empty chamber.

 

[dfariswheel]

All modern double action revolvers are perfectly safe to carry fully loaded.
They either have the older type hammer block/rebounding hammer designs, or the modern transfer bar safety/ignition system.

All these are as safe as humanly possible, and no amount of dropping, hammering or other mischance can cause one the fire.

Keeping an empty chamber under the hammer is a hold over of the old Single Action Army revolvers that could fire if the hammer was struck hard enough to break the hammer safety notch.
People who are not "gun smart" especially fiction authors often think the empty chamber applies to modern DA revolvers.

 

[CajunBass]

When I worked for a large security firm, many, many years ago, I was issued a Colt Official Police 38, and a little booklet called "You and Your Revolver." The book told you to always carry an empty chamber under the hammer for safety reasons. Of course that was promptly ignored by me, and everyone else. Even by the company who issued the revolver and the booklet apparently (or maybe they never read it) for they issued me six rounds of ammo. And only six.

 

[doubleh]

That is a case of another author that knows little about revolvers and didn't bother to do any research. It is a constant in any medium, print, movie, or TV. Some do get things right but are few in number. Company lawyers are the same. It took years but I have mellowed as I have aged and have learned to just ignore the silly things and enjoy the plot.

 

[unspellable]

Years ago in my youth I carried an empty chamber under the hammer on a python and a couple of Smiths. Right or wrong it does happen and I wouldn't be too quick to say the author was wrong.

 

[dfariswheel]

No, actually it doesn't happen.
A modern DA revolver can only fire if the trigger is physically pulled, OR if the loaded gun is tossed into a fire.

I once saw a test to prove this.
A S&W revolver was loaded with a blank cartridge under the hammer and a mallet was used to beat on the hammer.
Eventually the hammer snapped off.
The cartridge never fired.

The hammer blocking, rebounding design was designed in the 1890's. Colt perfected it with their "Positive" hammer block in the early 1900's, S&W perfected theirs in 1945.
Colt did an update of the old Iver Johnson "Hammer the Hammer" transfer bar action in 1969, and most all revolvers designed since use a version of Colt's transfer bar action.
Neither a rebounding hammer/hammer block, or a transfer bar action can fire no matter how hard the hammer is struck, as long as the action hasn't been tampered with.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

No, actually it doesn't happen.
A modern DA revolver can only fire if the trigger is physically pulled, OR if the loaded gun is tossed into a fire.

I once saw a test to prove this.
A S&W revolver was loaded with a blank cartridge under the hammer and a mallet was used to beat on the hammer.
Eventually the hammer snapped off.
The cartridge never fired.

The hammer blocking, rebounding design was designed in the 1890's. Colt perfected it with their "Positive" hammer block in the early 1900's, S&W perfected theirs in 1945.
Colt did an update of the old Iver Johnson "Hammer the Hammer" transfer bar action in 1969, and most all revolvers designed since use a version of Colt's transfer bar action.
Neither a rebounding hammer/hammer block, or a transfer bar action can fire no matter how hard the hammer is struck, as long as the action hasn't been tampered with.

I think he meant that it happens that people carried them that way, not that it could fire due to concussion.

 

[UncleEd]

During WWII, a sailor dropped a S&W Victory model on the
steel deck. It landed on the hammer and went off. The
sailor died.

Shortly after, S&W changed it design of the hammer block.
Reportedly the hammer pivot pin broke and the old hammer
block style did not work.

 

[retDAC]

All modern double action revolvers are perfectly safe to carry fully loaded.
...

I have a lot of respect for you and I know you overall know far more than I ever will.

I think you meant better quality DAs such as Colt, Ruger, Smith, and good copies/adaptations of same which do incorporate hammer blocks/transfer bars.

There were lesser quality DAs made possibly up into the '70s which may not nave had such. My uncle had a really cheap DA made in Goldsboro, N.C. after '68 which I don't had either.

Another consideration is the DA has to be in proper operating condition. Yes we typically expect such when buying from a shop but mistakes happen.

I once bought a used 686 from a lot of police trade ins. The trigger pull was better than average. Let a friend have it for a while and he found the hammer block was missing!
Since the shop normally had a 'smith check things before selling, I never thought about that.

I have heard of some "action jobs" in which the hammer blocks were deliberately removed!
Perhaps a closer study might indicate some tiny improvement but at present I cannot see how deleting a block would matter, let alone merit such risk.

 

[OS/N]

2 cent

A quality firearm is usually safer than a cheap one but not always.

An empty hole under the firing pin is safer if you use the gun for a hammer to drive a nail in.

A completly empty gun is safer than a loaded gun as long as you don't need it.

Can't ever recall hearing about an AD of a firearm that was actually unloaded. Most are from - I thought it was unloaded.

With all that out of the way, the modern DA/SA revolver (w/ hammer block) is the only firearm I will carry with a round in the chamber (fully loaded). It's the safest option for loaded carry IMO.

 

[dfariswheel]

"I think you meant better quality DAs such as Colt, Ruger, Smith".

I did, but any firearm imported since the 1960's Gun Control Act has to pass some safety tests, so they "SHOULD" be safe.
Cheaper guns by second tier companies like Taurus, Weihrauch, etc are usually safe, but quality is never up to American made guns.
Almost all new design revolvers have transfer bar ignition/safeties and it's hard to botch them up.
Of course, bad products happen, and people just insist on making guns unsafe.

As example, it was popular among target shooters to remove the Colt and S&W hammer blocking levers in the thought it might give a slightly better trigger in a straight target gun.
Also of course, non-expert shooters heard about this so they removed the blocks.
It pays to check used revolvers for the presence of the block.

You also have to take into account a much older gun, especially battered and beaten old guns.

 

[retDAC]

While H.P. White Labs were paid for some tests and I still have some old American Rifleman issue summarizing such, what's commonly called the '68 Gun Control Act set a points system for the importation of pistols and revolvers: cartridge, weight, barrel length, adjustable sights, target grips, etc. Some revolvers did get various types of safeties mainly in single action 'cowboy styles'. Some self loaders got manual safeties and adjustable sights.

This point system is still required to this day for foreign handguns. It is a matter of inspection, not testing.

There was never any required testing for importation and this does not apply to domestic production even if the parts are imported.

You mentioned 2nd tier DA revolver brands and you are right about those. It's just that there were some 3rd tier made domestically possibly up in to the '70s that only have rebound; no block/bar.

 

[Onty]

When I was joining a gun club near Guelph, ON, Canada, we had mandatory safety course, done by former RCMP firearms instructor.

In order to demonstrate how safety system works on Ruger GP100, he cocked hammer, inserted pencil in the barrel, eraser down, and pulled the trigger with finger; pencil jumped.

Next, he cocked hammer again, inserted pencil, and hit the trigger with second pencil, lightly, just by inertia, not pressing. Hammer went down, trigger went forward; pencil didn't move. VERY IMPRESSIVE!

 

[Jim Watson]

My Dad carried his sawn off Police Positive Special .32-20 with an empty chamber under the hammer. Typical know-it-all kid (Me!) explained the Colt Positive Safety hammer block and he went to six but I don't know if he was completely convinced it was right. He sold it after he retired, darn it. It wasn't a whole lot of gun, sawn off and worn down, but it would have been a family heirloom to me.

So just because something isn't necessary does not mean it is not done.

Even worse on the fictional front, there was a deaf PI who overrated hearing to the point that he stashed his apartment defense Python cocked so an intruder would not hear the action click.