I am looking for an older colt revolver in .38 S&W special. I know there were many different .38's back in the day. I like the colts, I have a nice new python, and am looking for a smaller frame colt to complement it. Does anyone know of a site that would tell me wich models were chambered .38 S&W special? I've seen many nice revolvers on the auction sites but usually only describe it as '38'. Any input would be appreciated.
Older Colt revolver help please!
- Thread starter PO2Hammer
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JCM298
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Colts
Go to the Colt forum. Your question will be answered there:
http://www.unitedforums.com/cgi-bin/cfcgi//Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true
John
Go to the Colt forum. Your question will be answered there:
http://www.unitedforums.com/cgi-bin/cfcgi//Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true
John
Colt made a revolver in .38 Special and .22 RF called the "Diamondback." It looks like a scaled down Python, and I suspect it might be just what you are looking for. Barrel lengths were 2 1/2" 4" and 6," blue or nickel finish.
A similar, but less expensive revolver with fixed sights was called the "Police Positive Special with barrel lengths running 4, 5 or 6 inches; or the Detective Special with 2 or 3 inch barrels.
An aluminum frame version of the Police Positive Special was called the "Viper." With a short barrel it was known as the "Cobra" or "Agent," (with a shorter butt).
This should be enough to get you started. At least you know what to look for.
A similar, but less expensive revolver with fixed sights was called the "Police Positive Special with barrel lengths running 4, 5 or 6 inches; or the Detective Special with 2 or 3 inch barrels.
An aluminum frame version of the Police Positive Special was called the "Viper." With a short barrel it was known as the "Cobra" or "Agent," (with a shorter butt).
This should be enough to get you started. At least you know what to look for.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I recently bought my first Diamondback: grossly overpriced, but elegant and accurate.
James Bondrock
Member
If you want a .38 Special, be aware that some old Colts were chambered for the .38 S&W (not S&W Special). These are not the same cartridge, so don't confuse them.
Thanks all, and thanks for the link, I had been to that site, but it must have been when they were first starting out, it was pretty sparse. I've been lurking at this board along time and just registered recently. A very nice board with good moderating and level headed discussion. I was aware of the various .38 calibers, must have been confusing even back then. .38 colt long and short, .38 S&W, .38 S&W special, others? I am trying to find a police positive special (I think) Mabey the 'special' at the end of the name indicated the .38 S&W special. Thanks all.
Josey
member
My understanding was that the 38 S&W Special designation was to keep folks from loading a 38 Special in a 38 Long Colt DA. I suggest the Official Police model. They are neat old Colts. A Lawman MKIII would be another good choice.
PO2Hammer:
Starting in about 1908 Colt offered a revolver called the Police Positive. It had a short cylinder and frame, and was chambered in either .32 S&W Long or .38 S&W (which Colt called the .32 or .38 Colt New Police).
Then they took the Police Positive frame and lengthened the cylinder and frame, and called it the "Police Positive Special" it was chambered in .38 Special or .32-20 (.32 WCF). These days people often call of these revolvers "Police Positive's" because they don't know the difference. Both were made in large numbers, and are often found on Internet auction sites. Early guns - up to about 1927 - had black hard rubber grips. Later models had checkered walnut grips. If you are looking for a shooter I would buy one of the latter, although it may be more expensive. Generally these guns go for about $175.00 to $300.00 depending on condition. You should be able to find what you want in the $250.00 range. The most common barrel length is 4 inches, but they were also made in 5 and 6 inch lengths.
Starting in about 1908 Colt offered a revolver called the Police Positive. It had a short cylinder and frame, and was chambered in either .32 S&W Long or .38 S&W (which Colt called the .32 or .38 Colt New Police).
Then they took the Police Positive frame and lengthened the cylinder and frame, and called it the "Police Positive Special" it was chambered in .38 Special or .32-20 (.32 WCF). These days people often call of these revolvers "Police Positive's" because they don't know the difference. Both were made in large numbers, and are often found on Internet auction sites. Early guns - up to about 1927 - had black hard rubber grips. Later models had checkered walnut grips. If you are looking for a shooter I would buy one of the latter, although it may be more expensive. Generally these guns go for about $175.00 to $300.00 depending on condition. You should be able to find what you want in the $250.00 range. The most common barrel length is 4 inches, but they were also made in 5 and 6 inch lengths.
PO2Hammer:
If you go to: www.gunbroker.com and do a search on "Police Positive" you will find a bunch of Police Positive's and Police Positive Special's. They seem a bit(?) overpriced, but if nothing else you can do some window shopping. These guns turn up all the time. It won't be long before you find one. The last one I got needed some minor work, but it only cost $140.00, and was (is) in decent shape.
If you go to: www.gunbroker.com and do a search on "Police Positive" you will find a bunch of Police Positive's and Police Positive Special's. They seem a bit(?) overpriced, but if nothing else you can do some window shopping. These guns turn up all the time. It won't be long before you find one. The last one I got needed some minor work, but it only cost $140.00, and was (is) in decent shape.
Cosmoline
Member
IIRC Colt kept making the PPS right up trough the '70's. I've got a post-WWII "Second Generation" PPS and it's by far my favorite shooter. It handles well and is *extremely* accurate with classic 155 grain RN lead slugs.
The famous "Detective Special" is another well-known early Colt DA in .38 Special.
The famous "Detective Special" is another well-known early Colt DA in .38 Special.
PO2-
I hate to suggest the really obvious, but you probably need to get some basic handgun books.
I think Wolfe Pub. Co., who print "Rifle" and, "Handloader" still sells reprints of Keith's, "Sixguns", and he covers basic Colts well through the 1950's; 1961 in the revised edition. This is a MUST book for a gun enthusiast!
Wilson's, "The Colt Heritage" is good. Sometimes, one can find copies of Haven and Belden's, "History of The Colt Revolver, 1836-1940".
Your public library may have some basic gun books, and big book stores like the Border's chain have gun books.
Lone Star
I hate to suggest the really obvious, but you probably need to get some basic handgun books.
I think Wolfe Pub. Co., who print "Rifle" and, "Handloader" still sells reprints of Keith's, "Sixguns", and he covers basic Colts well through the 1950's; 1961 in the revised edition. This is a MUST book for a gun enthusiast!
Wilson's, "The Colt Heritage" is good. Sometimes, one can find copies of Haven and Belden's, "History of The Colt Revolver, 1836-1940".
Your public library may have some basic gun books, and big book stores like the Border's chain have gun books.
Lone Star
Cosmoline
Member
Jim, .38 S&W Special *is* .38 Special and the Colt New Police is another name for the .38 S&W.
Are you just talking about not putting the name "S&W" on the revolver?
Are you just talking about not putting the name "S&W" on the revolver?
BluesBear
member
Looks like that's what he said.
Cosmoline
Member
He also said this:
"There were NO Colt revolvers chambered for the .38 S&W Special or for .38 S&W."
Thus my confusion.
"There were NO Colt revolvers chambered for the .38 S&W Special or for .38 S&W."
Thus my confusion.
The remark was true, but intended to be a bit humorous.
If you look at Colt catalogs, you will NEVER see any mention of the words "Smith & Wesson" or the initials "S&W". You will never see, in a list of calibers for which a gun is chambered, those words or initials.
So it is true that Colt NEVER chambered a revolver for .38 S&W Special, they chambered them for .38 Special/.38 Colt Special, which is the same thing, but without the hated initials. They never chambered a revolver for .38 S&W, they chambered them for the .38 Colt New Police, which is the same thing but with the Colt name.
Colt always considered S&W beneath their notice, and would never put the competition's name on their guns.
So everyone is all het up over what was intended to be a little humor and a bit of fun poking at the stuffed shirts at Colt.
Jim
If you look at Colt catalogs, you will NEVER see any mention of the words "Smith & Wesson" or the initials "S&W". You will never see, in a list of calibers for which a gun is chambered, those words or initials.
So it is true that Colt NEVER chambered a revolver for .38 S&W Special, they chambered them for .38 Special/.38 Colt Special, which is the same thing, but without the hated initials. They never chambered a revolver for .38 S&W, they chambered them for the .38 Colt New Police, which is the same thing but with the Colt name.
Colt always considered S&W beneath their notice, and would never put the competition's name on their guns.
So everyone is all het up over what was intended to be a little humor and a bit of fun poking at the stuffed shirts at Colt.
Jim
BluesBear
member
Same way with Colt and the .32 Colt New Police cartridge which was just a flat nosed .32 S&W Long.
Not to be confused with the .32 Long Colt which was a slightly smaller round sharing dimensions with the .32 rimfire.
Both the .32CNP and the .38CNP used flat nosed bullets instead of the standard RNL.
I recall shooting Remington ammo with the headstamp .38 Colt N.P.
Not to be confused with the .32 Long Colt which was a slightly smaller round sharing dimensions with the .32 rimfire.
Both the .32CNP and the .38CNP used flat nosed bullets instead of the standard RNL.
I recall shooting Remington ammo with the headstamp .38 Colt N.P.
Cosmoline
Member
Ah, I see The Squarehead in me is slow on the uptake sometimes.
Actually, this is one more reason to prefer Colt! You don't have to see those evil initials from "Sellouts & Weasels"
The Squarehead in me is slow on the uptake sometimes. Actually, this is one more reason to prefer Colt! You don't have to see those evil initials from "Sellouts & Weasels"
Cosmoline-
Hi. You met me on the "Lost World" forum at SF-Fandom.com I'm Explorer there. (That board was down for a few days this week as they changed servers. It's back up tonight.)
Keep in mind that "Sellout & Weasel" is now owned by a different firm, and that Colt in the past has tried to avoid the consumer market, as I recall, preferring to make its money from government M16 contracts. Pretty much all the major gun companies have sinned. Bill Ruger is partially responsible for the ban on large capacity magazines, and for years, refused to make any revolvers other than single-actions, as he felt that they were all a sportsman should want.
As for the Police Positive Special, I had one in high school, made in the 1920's. I knew what it was because I'd read Jim Serven's Colt books, and Keith's, "Sixguns", etc. I also owned a Colt M1917 .45 and a Webley Mk. VI.
I recall seeing quite a few of these guns on TV shows in the late 1950's, when I was a kid. I believe that "Phillip Marlowe" had a Detective Special on him, and a panel under the dash of his car with a Police Positive Special, and other TV detectives and crooks had them. It's a good blend of compactness and .38 Colt Special (lol!) power.
Chic Gaylord, the famed holster maker, also liked the PPS a lot.
Of course, on "Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World" TV SERIES (as distinct from several movies based on the same book), the only Colts seen are Prof. Challenger's Single-Action Army and the M1911 .45 autos carried by Lord Roxton and Ned Malone in some episodes. (Roxton usually wears those ivory-butted Webleys in shoulder holsters in later episodes.)
I always felt that whoever chose Marguerite Krux's gun should have opted for a Police Positive Special or a S&W Military and Police, either of which would have been easily available when the expedition left for South America in 1920. As is, she has that S&W New Departure Safety Hammerless .38, occasionally filled-in for by a similar Iver Johnson. Seems to depend on what the prop house had on hand that day...
"The Lost World" airs in local markets, and is also on WGN Cable TV out of Chicago, and appears each weekday morning on TNT cable. (Central time for that is 6:00AM) It is one of the VERY few TV shows whose heroes carry guns and who aren't either cops or crooks. It is about the ONLY TV show to depict honest citizens using guns to defend themselves and which doesn't send a negative message about private gun ownership.
That's one reason why I like the show. Others include the general chemistry among the cast, and Rachel Blakely (Marguerite) and Jennifer O'Dell as Veronica. The last is featured on page 33 (I think) in the Jan., 2004 (50th Anniversary), "Playboy", where she is quoted on, among other things, her role as Veronica. Worth a look.
Lone Star
Hi. You met me on the "Lost World" forum at SF-Fandom.com I'm Explorer there. (That board was down for a few days this week as they changed servers. It's back up tonight.)
Keep in mind that "Sellout & Weasel" is now owned by a different firm, and that Colt in the past has tried to avoid the consumer market, as I recall, preferring to make its money from government M16 contracts. Pretty much all the major gun companies have sinned. Bill Ruger is partially responsible for the ban on large capacity magazines, and for years, refused to make any revolvers other than single-actions, as he felt that they were all a sportsman should want.
As for the Police Positive Special, I had one in high school, made in the 1920's. I knew what it was because I'd read Jim Serven's Colt books, and Keith's, "Sixguns", etc. I also owned a Colt M1917 .45 and a Webley Mk. VI.
I recall seeing quite a few of these guns on TV shows in the late 1950's, when I was a kid. I believe that "Phillip Marlowe" had a Detective Special on him, and a panel under the dash of his car with a Police Positive Special, and other TV detectives and crooks had them. It's a good blend of compactness and .38 Colt Special (lol!) power.
Chic Gaylord, the famed holster maker, also liked the PPS a lot.
Of course, on "Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World" TV SERIES (as distinct from several movies based on the same book), the only Colts seen are Prof. Challenger's Single-Action Army and the M1911 .45 autos carried by Lord Roxton and Ned Malone in some episodes. (Roxton usually wears those ivory-butted Webleys in shoulder holsters in later episodes.)
I always felt that whoever chose Marguerite Krux's gun should have opted for a Police Positive Special or a S&W Military and Police, either of which would have been easily available when the expedition left for South America in 1920. As is, she has that S&W New Departure Safety Hammerless .38, occasionally filled-in for by a similar Iver Johnson. Seems to depend on what the prop house had on hand that day...
"The Lost World" airs in local markets, and is also on WGN Cable TV out of Chicago, and appears each weekday morning on TNT cable. (Central time for that is 6:00AM) It is one of the VERY few TV shows whose heroes carry guns and who aren't either cops or crooks. It is about the ONLY TV show to depict honest citizens using guns to defend themselves and which doesn't send a negative message about private gun ownership.
That's one reason why I like the show. Others include the general chemistry among the cast, and Rachel Blakely (Marguerite) and Jennifer O'Dell as Veronica. The last is featured on page 33 (I think) in the Jan., 2004 (50th Anniversary), "Playboy", where she is quoted on, among other things, her role as Veronica. Worth a look.
Lone Star
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