Oldest commonly available cartridge

[Jack T.]

Last night, the lovely Mrs. Jack T and I were discussing my impending purchase of two new (used) Smiths (629 Classic, 624) and she brought up an interesting question that I couldn't even begin to answer. . .So she suggested I ask ya'll.

What is the oldest commonly available cartridge? I mean, if I go down to the local gun/sporting/outdoors/hunting store and look over their ammo, which ammo has been around the longest? I had some ideas such as .32-20 or .44-40, but she didn't want to count those because they were not commonly available. . .

 

[Balog]

.22. I believe the .22 short was the first cartridge ever introduced.

 

[tc300mag1]

45/70 45colt? 38 sp was alate 1800's cartridge i believe

 

[4v50 Gary]

If the operative word is "commonly"

I'd say it's 22 LR. Then going up the scale it's the 38 Special. For rifles, how about the 30-30 (more popular than the 45-70 methinks).

 

[Mal H]

I agree with Balog. I've heard the oldest integral case/bullet is the .22 rimfire, now called the Short. Came out before the Civil War, IIRC.

 

[Erik]

45-70

 

[dfariswheel]

The earliest would be:
The .22 Short...late 1850's early 1860's
The .45 Colt...1872
The shotgun shell...late 1860's
The 45/70...late 1860's.

The 32/20 and the 44/40 were both mid-1870's.

The .38 Special and the 30/30 were both mid to late 1890's.

 

[Jack T.]

Man, you guys are good. . .I never would have thought of the 22 Short. My wife actually suggested the 45 Colt, but I didn't think it was that old. Ooops.

 

[foghornl]

If going by "commonly available" as in "most stores/shops will have it", I would say probably the .22 rimfire, .30-30 and .38Spl.

Just from my travels in some out-of-the-way places, those 3 seem to be on more shelves than other ammo. And usually a few boxes of 12Ga shotty fodder, too.

 

[Gunhamr]

The 44/40 was used in the War Betwwen The States, 1861-1865
but in rimfire version, not the centerfire as we know it. Was used
in the Spencer and Henry lever actions.

 

[WilderBill]

.22 short, patented by S&W in 1854.
There were very few cartridges as we know them before that and none of them are anywhere remotely near common today.

 

[Jim March]

The only reason more cartridges from the 1860s - 1890ish period did NOT survive is that they were either rimfires bigger than .22 cal, heeled bullets or both (44 Henry Rimfire fr'instance).

(The .22Short/.22LR are the last "heeled bullets" where the bullet proper is as fat as the outside diameter of the shell and the bullet has a "protrusion" back into the case. These are "outside lubricated" which is another way of saying "not lubed real well". By backing the bullet into the shell you can protect the lube, allowing way more lube. This is also why "38" bullets are actually .357 or so - an older "38" caliber in the 38Special's ancestry was heeled so that the bullet and barrel was the same bore as the shell, very close to true 38. When they shrank the bullet diameter and backed it into the shell, they dropped to closer to .36Cal but the marketing wonks didn't want to admit it . The same sequence happened with the .44 - very early ones were heeled, they went non-heeled starting with the Russian, dropped the actual bore to .429 where the Special then Magnum then 445Supermag picked it up.)

The rounds that survive from that 1860s - 1890ish era all basically started out as the modern non-heeled type (45LC, 45-70/90/100/120 series, etc) or were adapted that way during that period.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I don't think there's any direct lineage between .44 Henry Rimfire and .44-40 Winchester. I think the .44-40 round was developed around 1873, in the (gasp!) model 1873 Winchester lever rifle. I don't know what cartridges the older 1866 rifles were available in.

I'd say the oldest commonly available cartridges are .45-70 and .45 Colt. I mean, I've seen a lot more .45 Colt than I have .22 Short, as .22LR (a newer cartridge) has all but replaced both .22 Short and .22 Long. You can get .44-40, .32-20, .38-55, .38 Long Colt, etc., but these (for the most part) have only been really re-introduced due to the popularity of cowboy action shooting. I'm sure before CAS took off you'd have a heck of a time finding a box of .32-20 anyplace.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The .22 Short.

Patented in 1857, by Smith & Wesson.

The next few developments were all rimfires, and pretty much are no longer available except when someone has a special run of .32 Short rimfires made.

The .22 Long Rifle is a relative oldster, having been introduced in 1887.

The .45 Long Colt was 1873, as was the .44-40 and the .45-70.

The .30-30 was introduced in 1895.

The .38 Special was, depending on the source, anywhere from 1899 to 1902. I'm sticking with the 1899 date, as I've seen S&W Model of 1899 revolvers in .38 Spl. that have had serial numbers putting them as being made prior to 1902.


Gunhamr, the .44 Henry Flat rimfire, the round used in the Civil War, was considerably different from the .44-40. The Henry round had a straight case, the .44-40 is slightly bottlenecked. The .44-40s case is considerably longer, and held nearly double the amount of powder, making it MUCH more powerful than the .44 Henry.

Spencer cartridges bear even less relation to the .44-40 or the .44 Henry Flat.

 

[Mal H]

If .22 Shorts are available at Wal-Mart, which they are, then I have to conclude it is commonly available. I buy a brick of them every so often there. Great for short range squirrel control using a long barrel rifle - a natural silencer, actually quieter than my air rifle.

 

[bfoster]

The 22 BB Cap in a form similar to the ammunition made today by RWS was produced as early as 1845 by Flobert in France.

This is a short case length (~6mm) cartridge unlike the BB caps available from CCI.

Availability? I don't know in general, but the hardware in town used to carry RWS BB Caps until they were forced out of business by the chain stores about a year back.

Bob

 

[berto]

All this talk of the .38sp.....didn't the .38 S@W predate the special by decades?

 

[Kamicosmos]

didn't the .38 S@W predate the special by decades

yes, but we're looking for commonly available old cartridges.

I have never seen .38 S&W outside of collector shows.

 

[berto]

THey are still commoly available where I live,I have an Enfield revolver that shoots 'em.The shops I frequent sell the 145gr RNL load.

 

[STW]

I've seen replicas of advertising for the .22 short from its introduction. It was touted as a defensive round.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"yes, but we're looking for commonly available old cartridges.

I have never seen .38 S&W outside of collector shows."

I see it in most of the gunshops I'm in in Northern Virginia and Pennsylvania.

As for date of introduction, around 1878.


"The 22 BB Cap in a form similar to the ammunition made today by RWS was produced as early as 1845 by Flobert in France."

Very true, but I've never seen it outside of an occasional box of RWS at a gunshow.

 

[Chipperman]

Somewhat of a tangent:

What is the oldest Military Cartridge still in use?
I think it is 7.62x54R.

Any older than that still in use?

 

[Preacherman]

Oldest military rifle cartridge would have to be the .45-70. Oldest military handgun cartridge would be the .45 Colt, I think.

 

[Triad]

Preacherman, I think he meant the oldest still used by a military. I think .22LR would qualify for oldest in military service.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I guess some militaries use .22LR for training rifles. I don't think ours does.

The oldest CENTERFIRE catridge in service is the 7.62x54mmR. It's been in constant service since 1891, and will remain in service for the forseeable future.