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Oliver North says Ritalin linked to school shootings

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hdwhit, May 20, 2018.

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  1. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    It wouldn’t surprise me any. It’s probably not the root cause though. I don’t usually agree with hipster types, but all these vaccinations they give children are most likely the initial source of a lot of these mental illnesses on the rise.

    If you take 10 steps back and look at how government works you soon find that they don’t care about your family. They Are willing to sacrifice a few for the “good of the whole”. They put those kids on ADHD drugs so that the other kids can learn. It’s not for that child, it’s to remedy those children’s impact on the learning of society as a whole.
     
  2. Dragon breath

    Dragon breath Member

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    I think that the link between Ritalin and school shootings should be studied, and changes made if needed.
    Personally I think that the biggest change is in our culture. In years past, most ( obviously not all ) kids grew up in a two parent family where one parent worked and one stayed home with the children. The kids went to school every week day, and after school they went straight home and stayed there. On the weekends, they were with their parents.

    Now, the number of single parents is much higher. And in the large majority of two parent households both parents work. The kids are either going straight from school to daycare or a contrived after school activity. Or they are ‘latchkey kids’ and go home to a empty house. With more of the same thing going on the weekend. It is like a large number of parents are going out of their way to not have to spend time with their kids. Add to it social media and video games and all the rest, and you have a recipe for destruction.

    And don’t even get me started on partcipitation trophies and not keeping score.
     
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  3. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I’m a retired teacher. There has been a lot of ignorance and speculation shared in this thread. Everybody thinks they are an expert on school because they attended one, and an expert on childhood because they were one. And now a guy who didn’t go to medical school is sharing half-baked guesses about medication and making the NRA look even worse than they have been lately. I didn’t even know that was possible. It didn’t take long for North to prove he was a poor choice.

    I think we would all be better served if people thought more and talked less.

    “The government” doesn’t put kids on drugs. It takes a doctor to do that. Schools aren’t permitted to diagnose nor treat diseases whether they are real or imaginary ones like ADD.
     
  4. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    According to researchers at Johns Hopkins, medical error is the third leading cause of death in the US.
    Medical experts are far from perfect and not above scrutiny.
     
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  5. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    ....I agree. Folks here regularly complain about curriculum, and don't know what's being taught at their local school. Folks complain about school security, and have not been to a school during the school day recently. I wonder how many, if any at all, have ever been to a local School Board meeting to address any of their complaints or whines? So easy for folks to "arm chair quarterback" the day after a school shooting and come up with reasons and whys, when in reality, they know nuttin' but what they have heard on the news. The same media they claim lies and gives us half-truths regularly.

    Are kids committing school shootings because they are on Ritalin, or are those kids on Ritalin because they are prone to be mentally unstable. Folks claim that it's mental illness and not guns committing these horrendous crimes, and here we have actual proof.....yet we want to scoff on it and lay the blame on the schools themselves. Maybe some folks need to be schooled themselves.
     
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  6. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Note: It's "Occam's Razor," not "Achems Razor."
     
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  7. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    How does saying there's a "link" become saying it's the "cause"?
    The problem I see is kids with ptoblems being ignored til it's too late.
    Making them docilie via drugs does not fix the problems.
     
  8. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    With due respect, Col. North did not make up his theory out of whole cloth. The use of drugs by school shooters has been noted by many others, some of those being trained medical experts.
    As I pointed out in an earlier post, I'm NOT endorsing what Col. North said. But I do think it is reasonable to believe mind altering drugs may have a partial role in these violent school shootings.
    I don't think it's very smart to disparage Col. North. But take what he said with a grain of salt.
    I'll reiterate what I pointed out yesterday; this matter needs further study. By experts, not us Internet commandos.;)
     
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  9. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Note: It's "Occam's Razor," not "Achems Razor."

    (I'd blame auto-correct or speech-to-text. Achem makes PVC tape.)
     
  10. tark

    tark Member

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    It should be mentioned that Ritalin is a DEA schedule II controlled substance. That places it alongside morphine, dilaudid and fentanyl. Methamphetamine is also also C-II. Ritalin (Methylphenidate hydrocholoride) is chemically almost identical to methamphetamine in structure. Nasty stuff. The problem, as with all drugs that get you "high" , is the patient soon discovers that the more you take the better you feel.

    I don't think Colonel North is entirely out of line here. There may be some truth to the idea our kids are over medicated, causing them to go off the deep end.
     
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  11. RPZ

    RPZ Member

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    If "troubled kids", "bad parenting", "disadvantaged kids", etc are in any way a root cause, how come nearly all these shooters are white?

    Law of averages should apply. I'd like to know the numbers of different racial groups on these mind altering meds.
     
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  12. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    A huge understatement IMO.
    Same can be said for adults.
     
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  13. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    He's the 1st I've heard to bring up a possible link, so good on him.
    The idea is certainly plausible, and I feel the link between violence and kids being prescribed mood altering drugs is very likely.
     
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  14. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I will now do the thing I just criticized others for and will make a guess.

    Middle class white kids tend to have better access to health care and therefore are more likely to be seen by a doctor who routinely hands out drugs as a substitute for parents spending time with their kids and being involved in their lives.
     
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  15. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    That's odd, I know of several parents that have been told by three different school systems that if their children were not examined by doctors for psych testing they would not be allowed back in school and would face the repercussions, but financial and legal for that. While you are correct the school did not "diagnose nor treat" that statement is at best self-serving.
     
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  16. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    it is effectively methamphetamine after all. The connection between mass shooters and antidepressants AND stimulants has been well known since the early 90's, so I wouldn't call it nonsense. Antidepressants alone are linked to violent, irrational behavior, suicidal thought, and disconnect from reality. This is the one major change that scales alongside mass shootings/teen suicides/violence. While the medical records are secret, its clear from the description that these are the people who crappy doctors throw drugs at.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  17. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Yep. I am involved as a volunteer in a program providing weekend food bags to school children who do not have enough at home to eat. You can't study if you are hungry, and Monday mornings are hell if you have been hungry all weekend. Some of those kids would gorge on the free school breakfast, to the point of throwing up.

    Guess what? We have absolutely zero cases of "food allergies" that we need to address. It appears that only the wealthy kids are privileged enough to have that 1st world problem.
     
  18. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    Graping at speculative, even pseudo-scientific explanations for these events makes the NRA - and via their prominence on the issue, all gun owners - degrades their credibility on the issue.
     
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  19. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Don't forget belief in God being widely considered a mental condition. Relative Morality by committee doesn't end well.
     
  20. Swifty Morgan

    Swifty Morgan Member

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    I was treated for ADD (before "ADHD" was cool) as an adult. They gave me a lot of stuff, including Ritalin. I loved Ritalin. It was very relaxing, and it helped me concentrate. Unfortunately, my tolerance went through the roof. I took a big dose before I took the LSAT, and I crashed in the middle. I had to take another 60 mg to keep going. I ended up with 4 test sections that were perfect or nearly perfect, plus one where I pretty much guessed at the answers.

    These days I don't even drink coffee. Not even decaf, which has more caffeine than you would think. I don't eat chocolate bars or drink tea.

    When I was involved in the ADD craze, people talked about rebellious, snotty ADD kids as if they were cute and somehow admirable. Some people seemed to think they were gutsy risk-takers who got things done. I thought they were just obnoxious brats who needed a dose of the belt, and besides, underachievement is a hallmark of ADHD people, so the idea that they have something the rest of us need is nuts.

    I suspect that a lot of rotten, malicious kids get diagnosed with ADHD so parents and teachers have an excuse to try drugs on them and make them sit down and shut up. If we are drugging kids who are nasty little farts to begin with, it makes sense that drugged kids would figure prominently in crime statistics. Ritalin won't make you a good person.

    As for me personally, I am definitely attention-deficient. It's not an imaginary problem. But my belief is that my terrible upbringing is what caused my scholastic problems. My parents let me grow like a weed. They didn't do anything to teach me self-discipline or good habits. I believe good character will overcome ADHD most of the time. It's kind of tough to develop it as an adult, however.
     
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  21. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    yea, school nurses in the late 90's were able to issue "I think he has ADD, he can't come back unless he's on treatment for it". I suppose thats not the same as diagnosing and forcing drugs, but it obviously is. They also had you bring your drugs to the administration office, and the nurse issued them, and verified you took them like in a mental hospital. So yes, they do 'force' kids to take psychoactive drugs. At least at my schools.
     
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  22. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    No. It is not.

    While both work on dopamine, their chemical structures and mechanisms of action are distinctly different. And it doesn't aid this discussion to falsely claim that the two substances are one in the same.
     
  23. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    And as your own testimony demonstrates; Ritalin also doesn't turn you into a mass murderer.
     
  24. Swifty Morgan

    Swifty Morgan Member

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    Not yet, anyway.
     
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  25. entropy

    entropy Member

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    I will add my personal experience. Both my sons were diagnosed with either ADD (the older) or ADHD, and the younger one was diagnosed bi-polar. The Psychyatrist that diagnosed my younger son bi-polar prescribed Latuda, which is contraindicated for children under 18 (he was 12 at the time) as well as Streterra (a form of meth) Fortunately, after their short times of using them, both sons refused to take their meds, because of the side effects. ("It turns me into a zombie, Dad!") Neither will even take an asprin unless they are really hurting.The younger one cut his leg last night right before work, just put gauze, triple antibiotic, and surgical tape on it and went to work. They did not like what they became when on those drugs. Both are well adjusted gun owners whose conduct while using guns I do not have to worry about. (OK, some of that is my doing, all modesty aside.) No signs of bi-polarity in the younger, and while neither is a Rhodes scholar, they are doing OK. I credit my wife with never stopping advocating for them, the "Mamma Bear" came out big time-you don't mess with the "Mamma Bear" !:uhoh:
     
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