OMG! Canada?

[Leadhead]

Canada isn't very gun friendly, especially when Americans cross the border...even for booked hunting trips. They seem to be suspicious that our agenda is running illegal guns.

You Americans are living(well most depending on what State) in the most gun friendly "civilized" place on earth so it's understandable that everything else looks like gun hell, but compared to our cousins in Australia and England we have it pretty good...and we are trying to make it better. Recently our Govt. got rid of the requirement to register longguns which is quite an amazing feat!
Tuner you talk about the border and trust issues around guns....try ordering more then $100 worth of gun parts from the US today! The amount of BS paperwork and restrictions are mindblowing and the list of what is and what is not acceptable makes no sense!
If a gun has a flashhider on it these days it is not allowed to leave the United States today? Why...who knows? What are they afraid of?

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'm sure someone, somewhere in the Canadian gubment figured out how long and far they can stretch the employment of the folk responsible for the destruction. No doubt it'll take several million dollars (Canadian) to do the work of a few thousand dollars labor not to mention that the value of the metal will most certainly melt (PI) away in the activity as well.
I recall way back that numbers had been inadvertently released for the destruction of some of our own governments 1911s and it worked out to something like 300+ dollars for each drop of the shear to destroy them in the breakdown of extended costs and each pistol required a separate operation for barrel and frame. The admin cost alone was mind boggling.

Heaven forbid they (Canada and us in the past) actually realize a net profit relative to the; original purchase, maintenance, decommission and disposal by selling them to law abiding citizens. We couldn't even get the weenies to put the sustainment parts on the market.

 

[Mp7]

,,,

that's a shame ...


... but still... no reason to drink US made beer

 

[Leadhead]

Lot's of good micro brews in the pacific north west....

I think the govt. cant handle the idea of one of these surplus guns ever killing someone by accident,suicide or any other situation really. Some gun haters will jump up screaming why why did the govt. sell these tools of death and destruction to the public!
If it saves one life and all that c r a p.......

 

[Sam Cade]

Okay, what are the numbers and what is the link?

Firearm Use by Offenders
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=940

In 1997, 14% of State inmates who had used or possessed a firearm during their current offense bought or traded for it from a retail store, pawnshop, flea market, or gun show (table 8). Nearly 40% of State inmates carrying a firearm obtained the weapon from family or friends. About 3 in 10 received the weapon from drug dealers, off the street, or through the black market. Another 1 in 10 obtained their gun during a robbery, burglary, or other type of theft.

Old data though.

 

[tahunua001]

I just read a story from the Ottawa Citizen online in an article dated September 27, 2011, that I find very disturbing.

The article states that 19,000 Hi Powers used by the Canadian armed forces are being replaced by a new pistol. At the time of the article there had not been a decision as to what new pistol would replace the HP. That's not the disturbing part.

The Canadian PTB have decided not to sell them, but to smelt them. 19,000 Inglis Hi Powers put to death out of shear stupidity. They're not even allowing the possibility of finding homes for them. How PC.

Oh, the humanity! I may never buy another Canadian beer again.

Canada has incredibly stringent gun laws by american standards. IIRC you need a permit to own a hunting rifle, AR15s and AK pattern rifles? forget about it unless you pay for extra permits and limit yourself to 5 round mags.
browning hi powers are considered high cap, military grade weapons and in like fashion the government does not want that falling into the wrong hands so they don't sell them off as surplus...the same way that the US military smelts down all their guns now that billy clinton made it illegal for americans to buy surplus.

In 1997, 14% of State inmates who had used or possessed a firearm during their current offense bought or traded for it from a retail store, pawnshop, flea market, or gun show (table 8). Nearly 40% of State inmates carrying a firearm obtained the weapon from family or friends. About 3 in 10 received the weapon from drug dealers, off the street, or through the black market. Another 1 in 10 obtained their gun during a robbery, burglary, or other type of theft.
Old data though.

I'd say that's still pretty accurate. that's little over 1 tenth of criminals are dumb enough buy from an FFL and have a gun registered in their name.

 

[Ash]

Of course, we don't have registration in most states.

 

[1911Tuner]

Tuner you talk about the border and trust issues around guns....try ordering more then $100 worth of gun parts from the US today! The amount of BS paperwork and restrictions are mindblowing and the list of what is and what is not acceptable makes no sense!

It must be on your side. I can order hundreds of dollars worth of parts over the phone from Brownells, and the only question that I get is "Is there anything else you need today, sir?"

 

[larryh1108]

That's the U.S. export laws. If it's over $100 and it's firearm related you need a special permit to ship. A lot of items cannot be exported. It's not worth it to ship parts outside the U.S. with all the extra BS. Ever buy anything online with computer chips in it? They ask if you are going to export it. That's a big no-no.

 

[Leadhead]

It must be on your side. I can order hundreds of dollars worth of parts over the phone from Brownells, and the only question that I get is "Is there anything else you need today, sir?"

The are polite aren't they. It's not on our side. All the changes have been on your side. There are no problems with importing most items into Canada, it's US export rules that have changed since the "war" on terrorism started.
Hopefully some common sense will prevail but these days if a gun is marked with 5.56 Nato or 7.62 Nato it's no go..... same gun marked .308 and .223 is not a problem.
Guns with flashiders can't be exported and unless a US company is ready to Pay the US govt it's dues export to Canada is restricted or limited to $100 for certain gun parts.
You can order the gun parts in 3 shipments of $100 but put it in one box for $300 and it's a no go.
We are a small market compared to the US ,so many American manufactures can't be bothered to pay the large fee demanded by your govt just to export to Canada.
Silly gun laws and regulations seem to know no borders.

 

[razorback2003]

I feel sorry for folks in Canada who the Canadian govt make it extremely difficult to defend themselves. Crazy that a few select people can carry handguns for defense in that country and the rest of the people seem to have to keep their handguns in a safe EVEN when they are at home.

 

[tahunua001]

Of course, we don't have registration in most states.

wrong, every gun is registered. however it is only registered by the original purchaser unless it crosses state lines, you sign a piece of paper that says that you are the one purchasing the gun, you give a social security number, you put the serial number of the gun that you are buying regardless of how many times that gun changes hands that serial number is going to be traced back to you if it is ever discovered at a crime scene.

however there is a difference between being registered and having to purchase a permit and submitting to fingerprinting and doing so every time that gun changes hands.

 

[Sam Cade]

wrong, every gun is registered.

The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day.

4473 forms are retained by the FFL holder for 20 years. In order to find a firearms original purchaser the feds would have to know what dealer sold it and then paw through that dealers bound book.

 

[1911Tuner]

All the changes have been on your side. There are no problems with importing most items into Canada, it's US export rules that have changed since the "war" on terrorism started.

Ah. Okay. I didn't realize things had gotten that bad for US/Canada commerce. It's a shame and disgrace, but the border agents that hassled me and my friends were Canadian.

 

[Ash]

As Sam said. Registration means a database is established where every gun purchase I make is registered to my name (or more correctly, an individual number, usually SSN). A simple search of my name reveals which firearms I own, their serial numbers, make and model, caliber, etc. That is registration. 4473 helps in establishing a paper trail based on a serial number cross-referenced to a manufacturer. But to do that, you have to have the firearm itself, then track down the manufacturer/importer information, then find the FFL to which it was sold. That is not registration - but it is a paper-trail which can be followed to a point. But the police cannot simply take the firearm in question, type its serial number in a computer, and get your name, address, and physical description with it.

You might say it is related to registration, because it is a statement of last purchase that records a name with the purchase - I won't disagree with you on that. And only a fool would go that route to purchase an arm to be used in a crime. But such fools are the kinds who commit crimes of passion. Professional thugs don't go that route.

 

[Pilot]

I go to Canada for business occasionally, and go through Canadian Customs. I never bring firearms of course, but the last time I went through Customs, a nice German Shorthaired Pointer was being used as a drug sniffing dog. It looked similar to my GSP so I was petting him a bit, and making a fuss over him. The female Customs officer was NOT amused.

 

[Leadhead]

Ah. Okay. I didn't realize things had gotten that bad for US/Canada commerce. It's a shame and disgrace, but the border agents that hassled me and my friends were Canadian.

Unfortunately some of our border agents are not very good....coming home to Canada after traveling the world I am often left wondering why they are so "suspicious" in their demeanor? Be diligent but don't do it in such an obnoxious and caustic manor!

 

[Sam Cade]

Ah. Okay. I didn't realize things had gotten that bad for US/Canada commerce.

ITAR is a pain for everyone involved.

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf