On the workbench this weekend

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Here's what's on the bench this weekend. This is an Armi San Marco 1858 Remington being converted to .44 Colt. I've lengthened and reshaped the grip-frame to mimic a Colt Bisley, lowered the hammer spur, converted a stock cap-and-ball cylinder for cartridges, made the breech plate from half-hard 4140 steel, bored it through and fabricated a rebounding firing pin and installed it. I've cut a loading port in the blast shield on the frame, installed a new barrel and modified the rammer. The hand was pretty soft and well worn, so I made a new one out of some scrap 5160 spring-steel.



Next I need to build the latch for the rammer, which now functions only to retain the cylinder pin, make a set of custom grips, make and install a front sight, then strip the gun and rust-blue it. Lot of work left, but with the gun functional and capable of firing the hard part is done.



BTW, this uses the original .44 Colt, not the cartridge that goes by that name today. This gets loaded with .451 heel-base bullets in the .44 case. You can see the ring from the collet-crimp die on the cartridge in the first photo. There are a couple of specialty ammunition loaders that offer this cartridge, but they're expensive as hell, so I load my own.

 

[whughett]

You ever think about/ have you, a YouTube channel.

 

[Obturation]

Great work, Keep tinkerin'!

 

[Monac]

BTW, this uses the original .44 Colt, not the cartridge that goes by that name today. This gets loaded with .451 heel-base bullets in the .44 case. You can see the ring from the collet-crimp die on the cartridge in the first photo. There are a couple of specialty ammunition loaders that offer this cartridge, but they're expensive as hell, so I load my own.

I didn't know there was a current-day 44 Colt cartridge. If you don't mind bringing me up to speed, roughly when was it introduced and what is it for? Is it factory loaded, or handload only? Thanks!

BTW, it must be great to be able to think of something you want, and then make it. That's hard enough with wood (which I also can't do), but with steel...

 

[bannockburn]

Tinker

I marvel at your seemingly unlimited imagination in coming up with these builds! Keep them coming!

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

You ever think about/ have you, a YouTube channel.

I have a Youtube channel, but it's just a few misc. short shooting videos. Actually setting up a channel to properly show this sort of work is surprisingly expensive, and in my case would require an actual videographer, since I'm busy doing the work and can't really film myself doing it in a way that would be interesting or useful.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I didn't know there was a current-day 44 Colt cartridge. If you don't mind bringing me up to speed, roughly when was it introduced and what is it for? Is it factory loaded, or handload only? Thanks!

BTW, it must be great to be able to think of something you want, and then make it. That's hard enough with wood (which I also can't do), but with steel...

The original .44 Colt was made for Colt open-top revolvers (the Richards and Richards-Mason) and these were the only guns ever chambered for this cartridge at the factory. It was 'briefly) adopted by the US Army. Remington producced a nearly identical cartridge for a time for use in their factory 'conversion' guns. The current version of .44 Colt uses what is effectively a shortened .44 Special case with a smaller rim. These use a standard .429 bullet and bore. The cartridge was 'invented' by Uberti for use in Cowboy Action shooting matches in the late 90's or early 2000's, because .44 Special is a 20th C. cartridge and doesn't qualify for SASS. Guns in this caliber were sold by Cimarron and perhaps others. I don't know if they still are. I suppose there is commercially available ammo, but I've never seen it on a shelf. All in all the new version of the cartridge was not a great success.

 

[whughett]

I have a Youtube channel, but it's just a few misc. short shooting videos. Actually setting up a channel to properly show this sort of work is surprisingly expensive, and in my case would require an actual videographer, since I'm busy doing the work and can't really film myself doing it in a way that would be interesting or useful.

Well I know nothing of that. But with few exceptions most of the black smithing, knife making, restoration, boat building and almost any thing crafty or mechanical channels I subscribe to on a regular basis are made by folks who self video. On some it shows on others well I’d assume like many endeavors it’s self taught and gets better with time. Several I even patronize.
Any how thanks for your interesting posts and threads.

 

[adcoch1]

This is really cool! Did you make the bisley style grip add on from scratch, or did you have a bisley grip frame to cannibalize? That little thing would be very cool with some engraving on the frame and barrel... Very good work as always MTP.

 

[Monac]

Thanks for your reply, Michael Tinker Pearce. I did not know about the attempted revival of this cartridge. Sounds like a dubious concept.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

This is really cool! Did you make the bisley style grip add on from scratch, or did you have a bisley grip frame to cannibalize? That little thing would be very cool with some engraving on the frame and barrel... Very good work as always MTP.

I did it from scratch.

 

[Tallball]

Another awesome project!

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

That little thing would be very cool with some engraving on the frame and barrel... .

I'm actually learning proper engraving, but it's going to be awhile before I'm willing to commit to doing a gun.

 

[entropy]

I'm actually learning proper engraving, but it's going to be awhile before I'm willing to commit to doing a gun.

You seem to do all right on blades......
Nice little "Bisley Remington" conversion!

 

[silvermane_1]

Here's what's on the bench this weekend. This is an Armi San Marco 1858 Remington being converted to .44 Colt. I've lengthened and reshaped the grip-frame to mimic a Colt Bisley, lowered the hammer spur, converted a stock cap-and-ball cylinder for cartridges, made the breech plate from half-hard 4140 steel, bored it through and fabricated a rebounding firing pin and installed it. I've cut a loading port in the blast shield on the frame, installed a new barrel and modified the rammer. The hand was pretty soft and well worn, so I made a new one out of some scrap 5160 spring-steel.



Next I need to build the latch for the rammer, which now functions only to retain the cylinder pin, make a set of custom grips, make and install a front sight, then strip the gun and rust-blue it. Lot of work left, but with the gun functional and capable of firing the hard part is done.



BTW, this uses the original .44 Colt, not the cartridge that goes by that name today. This gets loaded with .451 heel-base bullets in the .44 case. You can see the ring from the collet-crimp die on the cartridge in the first photo. There are a couple of specialty ammunition loaders that offer this cartridge, but they're expensive as hell, so I load my own.

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Nice job Tinker.

 

[StrawHat]

...The original .44 Colt was made for Colt open-top revolvers (the Richards and Richards-Mason) and these were the only guns ever chambered for this cartridge at the factory. It was 'briefly) adopted by the US Army. Remington producced a nearly identical cartridge for a time for use in their factory 'conversion' guns. The current version of .44 Colt uses what is effectively a shortened .44 Special case with a smaller rim. These use a standard .429 bullet and bore. The cartridge was 'invented' by Uberti for use in Cowboy Action shooting matches in the late 90's or early 2000's, because .44 Special is a 20th C. cartridge and doesn't qualify for SASS. Guns in this caliber were sold by Cimarron and perhaps others. I don't know if they still are. I suppose there is commercially available ammo, but I've never seen it on a shelf. All in all the new version of the cartridge was not a great success.

One small correction. ASM was building Richards conversions long before Uberti considered doing a conversion. I do not have mine handy to me but late 70s? I have two, both 44 Colt, both “modernized” with a .430 bore and bullet. A wonderful gun-cartridge combination.

Colt modernized several of their cartridge in the past. The 41 and 32 come to mind but I am sure there are others.

Kevin

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

One small correction. ASM was building Richards conversions long before Uberti considered doing a conversion. I do not have mine handy to me but late 70s? I have two, both 44 Colt, both “modernized” with a .430 bore and bullet. A wonderful gun-cartridge combination.

Colt modernized several of their cartridge in the past. The 41 and 32 come to mind but I am sure there are others.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin! I didn't know ASM were making the 'modern' .44 Colt that long ago.

 

[doubleh]

I always enjoy looking at your projects.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I always enjoy looking at your projects.

Came to say the same.

I like every one of these threads

 

[shootstraight57]

Nice revolver! I always watch you tube channels on revolver customizing or repair. This is going to be a beautiful addition to your collection.

 

[WestKentucky]

I would love to see a collection of the Tinker customs.

On second thought, I don’t need any more ideas.

Just like the rest Tinker, another masterpiece in the making.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

How about a Skull Crusher grip for your next project?











A Colt Richards Conversion with some original 44 Colt cartridges. Note the bullets are the same diameter as the cases. The cartridge used heeled bullets.





By the way, 44 Special is an acceptable cartridge in CAS. CAS is not super restrictive on when cartridges were developed. 44 Mag, and 357 Mag are acceptable cartridges in CAS, even though they were developed in the 20th Century, as long as the bullets are lead and velocity is under 1000 fps in a revolver. I forget what the velocity limit is in a rifle, maybe 1400fps. Here is a quote from the Shooters's Handbook:


Revolver and Rifle Calibers: .Rimmed cartridges. Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt,or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Driftwood- I'm also using heeled bullets, but they're lighter and I'm loading them deeper. details below.


these are Buffalo Bullets externally-lubed 180gr. RNL, loaded over 17.3gr. of Triple-7. How does it shoot? I was limited to five yards, and the target was a piece of pressure-treated pine 4x4. I shot once, then aimed at the bullet hole, then aimed at the second bullet hole for the third shot. All three shots blew through the 4x4- all three bullets were between the 4x4 and the backstop.


The chronograph reported and average velocity of 838fps for 281ft./lbs. at the muzzle. Extreme spread was 8fps.
This is a very sweet-shooting gun!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Very impressive. I got nervous at first when I saw you were using a cut down Black Powder cylinder, but then I relaxed when I saw you are using 777. How are you crimping those heeled bullets? Can you provide a photo of one of the bullets before it is assembled into a cartridge?

A stalled project of mine is casting heeled bullets for my Richards Conversion. I got a mold from Old West Bullet Molds in Colorado. I cast a few bullets but they are too small to fill up the grooves in the rifling. I sent the mold back and he opened it up a tad, but I my doctor has forbidden me to cast any more bullets because the lead count in my blood is too high. I bought some 44 Colt brass from Starline, but it turns out that 44 Russian brass fits the chambers perfectly. My plan is to use the Russian brass because it will contain less powder. I don't want to stress the old cylinder.






I took the liberty of shoving one of my heeled bullets into a 44 Colt shell, and they fit fine. The company supplied me with a modified Lee Factory Crimp die to crimp the heeled bullets. I have not tried it yet.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Hi Driftwood!

I'm using the crimping tool from Old West Bullet Molds. Very easy to use, provides and excellent crimp. I'll take some pics of the bullets I am using when I get into the shop later.
Oh, and I used this cylinder specifically because it is somewhat oversized in diameter- nice to have a little extra meat in the outer walls! Triple-7 is great stuff, and I haven't had tons of luck getting consistency from smokeless loads with heel-base bullets. The bullets I was using when I tried that were a little hard, but they worked fine with black powder, but not so well with smokeless.