Remington Cartridge Conversion- my first home-made cylinder!

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I got a good price on an 1858 Remington reproduction and decided to do another cartridge conversion- only this time in a proper .45 caliber cartridge. Also this time I was going to leave the gun full-length. I have another Remington snubby project in mind but that will wait for another day.

I started off reshaping the grip and replaced the loading lever with a full-length under-barrel lug that matched the gun's curves and acts to retain the cylinder-pin. Next was the cylinder...

If you want to fit .45 caliber cartridges in a Remington 1858 you can only get five shots in- otherwise you wind up boring through the locking-notches in the cylinder. You can do this the easy way by buying a Kirst Konverter, or you can do it the hard way and make your own. I've done the easy way, so...

I started with a 1-3/4" round bar of half-hard 4340 steel. I turned it down to size and turned down the end for the ratchet to pass through the breech-plate.


Then I needed to cut the teeth for the ratchet, and the question was how to space them correctly. After some thought I drew a pentacle with each line touching the center-hole. Voila! Five equally spaced points. I used a cut-off wheel in a flex-shaft tool to cut the teeth. I mounted the cylinder to be and rotated it with the mechanism, marked where the lock-notch needed to be and cut it with the cut-off wheel. Having established where one of them was it was pretty easy to space the others. Once all the lock-notches were placed I adjusted the ratchet with files and the flax-shaft until the cylinder rotated and locked in all five positions. I then line-bored the chambers, reamed them to .452", flipped the cylinder and ran a reamer in to cut the chambers for .450 Adams.

After that I made the breech-plate, made and installed a rebounding firing-pin and cut the loading port in the frame and breech-plate. Yes there was a lot more to it than that; considerable fiddling and not a little swearing.

The gun is now functionally complete, though there will doubtless be some more fiddling before everything is just right. There also will be some refinishing and I will be fabricating and installing an ejector. Of course the final proof will be when I get it to the range later this week...

 

[Mizar]

Wow, another great project from Michael! I have one question though - have you considered making a Colt style double finger hand? That way you can space the ratchet's teeth between the chambers. Actually, that was the sole reason why Colt used a double finger hand in it's single action cartridge revolvers.

P.S. Have you considered purchasing an indexing head, by the way? I know that good ones are expensive, but seeing your projects I believe it will be of real help.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Wow, another great project from Michael! I have one question though - have you considered making a Colt style double finger hand? That way you can space the ratchet's teeth between the chambers. Actually, that was the sole reason why Colt used a double finger hand in it's single action cartridge revolvers.

P.S. Have you considered purchasing an indexing head, by the way? I know that good ones are expensive, but seeing your projects I believe it will be of real help.

With the five-shot cylinder the teeth are well located between chambers, so I haven't really considered it. It's definitely something to think about as I move forward though! As to the indexing head, yes, that is something I have been considering, especially if I ever get the milling machine wired. Probably not this summer- scrambling to help my kid with the down-payment on her first house.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Very cool man. She looks great. Hope the live fire testing turns out well.

 

[bannockburn]

Tinker

Well Michael, you've done it again! Another brilliant piece of engineering and metalwork, taking a 19th Century black powder revolver into the 21st Century with your skills and craftsmanship! Like that you incorporated the full length, under barrel lug in keeping with the original design and a nice bit of nostalgia with the .450 Adams chambering!

 

[Tallball]

Another terrific project!

 

[chicharrones]

Also this time I was going to leave the gun full-length.

You what?

jk

The gun is now functionally complete, though there will doubtless be some more fiddling before everything is just right. There also will be some refinishing and I will be fabricating and installing an ejector. Of course the final proof will be when I get it to the range later this week...
View attachment 797288

Amazing. Just amazing. I've been wondering why you haven't posted in a while. You've been very busy.

 

[Catpop]

Kudos that is one first class job! I love it!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Very nice.

Interesting shape at the front of the under lug.

A couple of questions.

How come the choice of the unusual cartridge? Where do you get your brass? Do you cut down 45 Colt or other easily available brass?

Can you briefly describe line boring? How do you keep from scuffing up the rifling? Do you use some sort of guides in the bore? Did you make a custom cutter? Do you secure the gun in the vice of a drill press/milling machine, or do you use a hand held drill? Do you start small and open the holes up?

Thanks

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

A couple of questions.

How come the choice of the unusual cartridge? Where do you get your brass? Do you cut down 45 Colt or other easily available brass?

I chose .450 Adams because of it's history, because I already reload it to fire in a couple of my antiques and because it is a relatively low-powered/low pressure cartridge. The last is important because this is after all my first cylinder and I just didn't want to take a chance on a more potent round. I made some brass out of .45 Colt, but then I bought brass from Buffalo Arms. They make it out of .45 Schofield brass.

Can you briefly describe line boring? How do you keep from scuffing up the rifling? Do you use some sort of guides in the bore? Did you make a custom cutter? Do you secure the gun in the vice of a drill press/milling machine, or do you use a hand held drill? Do you start small and open the holes up?

I made a brass guide from 1/2" brass round-stock and turned it down until it fit snugly in the bore. I center-drilled it to accept a 1/4" bit. I dulled the flutes on the sides of the bit so that it wouldn't chew into the brass. I mounted the bit in the drill-press, put the guide in the barrel and bored the cylinder by pressing the gun up on the bit. Not a fun process, but it worked. After that I set up the cylinder in the milling vice and bored the holes to .442" then to .452". The larger drill bits wandered slightly- all of the holes at the front of the cylinder are precisely where they need to be, but the spacing at the breech end is a little off. Not enough to prevent the firing-pin from striking the primer, but not perfect. For the next one I will have the mill up and running and should achieve much greater precision.

 

[Hertzer]

If it might help here's how Remington did it.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Thanks for the information.

Here is an interesting Remington I was able to pick up a couple of months ago. An original 1858 Remington converted to shoot 32-20 cartridges.






The cylinder appears to be the original, cut down and sleeved for 32-20.








A firing pin was added to the hammer.






I suspect the barrel may be from an old Winchester rifle. The front sight looks typical of old Winchester sights.






While he was at it, the unknown smith added a nice little rear sight.






There is no loading gate, when the gun is in battery the cartridges do not line up with the slot cut for loading. This was often done on conversions, the shooter just has to remember to not cock the hammer with the gun pointing up or a round may slide out of the chamber passing the slot. There is also no extractor, the empties have to be shoved out with a stick. No, I do not intend on adding an extractor.

I have not fired it yet because the original hammer spring is strong enough to be used in a truck suspension and it is difficult to cock the hammer. My thumb was sore after about five times. One more project, I need to replace the hammer spring with a ground down one from Uberti.

 

[Walkalong]

Very impressive.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Howdy Again

Thanks for the information.

Here is an interesting Remington I was able to pick up a couple of months ago. An original 1858 Remington converted to shoot 32-20 cartridges.

Awesome!

 

[Mizar]

Hi Driftwood, I know I'm hijacking Michael's excellent thread, but can you please post a picture of the breechface?

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Hi Driftwood, I know I'm hijacking Michael's excellent thread, but can you please post a picture of the breechface?

Hijack away! I'd love to see it myself!

 

[milemaker13]

Very very nice work.

 

[kozak6]

Not bad, not bad...

For your next project, you should get ahold of Jim March and maybe integrate a magazine, auto ejector, and maybe even a self cocking hammer...

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Not bad, not bad...

For your next project, you should get ahold of Jim March and maybe integrate a magazine, auto ejector, and maybe even a self cocking hammer...

 

[Choctaw]

Great job and one heck of a cool project.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Rather than further hijacking this thread I am going to start a new one.

 

[Milt1]

Tinker, you need to find another site to display your enormous talent as you're making the rest of us look soooooooobad. Admire your ability man!

 

[entropy]

Not bad, not bad...

For your next project, you should get ahold of Jim March and maybe integrate a magazine, auto ejector, and maybe even a self cocking hammer...

I'd say he's ready for a Webley-Fosbery-in .450 Adams.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Things went a little sideways when the project-gun developed a timing issue with one chamber. I figured out the problem and a fix, but in the meantime I fitted the cylinder to another of my guns to test-fire it. Functioned flawlessly!
This was the first cylinder through the gun at 7 yards, fired with a six-o'clock hold.


This is two cylinders full, fired at a pace of one shot per second, also at seven yards. I'm pulling them to the left... need to work on that!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Amazing as always, good work alright. Thanks again for the pictures.