Spinner
Member
So .... does a Blaser double rifle with 470NE, 375 H&H and 30.06 barrel sets count as one rifle?? 
Spinner
Spinner
One gun safari.
- Thread starter H&Hhunter
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Hank.......
You can never have a scope set on to low a power at the wrong time if you need more magnifacation you'll have time to turn the scope up. And if it's on 6 that shouldn't be a problem for you...
I understand your hesitation with variables and function. I've never had a problem with the VX 3' in several thousand rounds and numerous falls drops and assorted abusive moments. I wouldn't put a cheap variable on any gun.
I don't want to get into I said you said match here you just shocked me with your scope choice you are the first and only hunter I've ever even heard of who uses this agraingement on a DG rifle..Like you said whatever blows up your skirt.
Spinner,
I don't know for sure however depends on the coubtry but I think you could get away with that as one rifle in some places.
Preacherman
Member
H&H, you've asked an interesting question in this thread. I've been thinking about it for a couple of days, based on my African hunting experience, and have a few observations.
You specify one gun for everything - elephant to eland to dik-dik. This is a very, very difficult proposition. For straightforward hunting, I'd unhesitatingly go with a good rifle in .375 H&H. With a mix of solids and soft-points in different weights, you'll be able to handle just about anything.
However, for the more dangerous stuff, you're not dealing with hunting alone, but also with stopping or charge-turning power. For this, a .375 H&H is not the best choice: but if one goes upscale, even a .458 or .470 is not that great either! Also, the bigger stuff means that your flexibility for the smaller game is greatly reduced.
You also have to specify terrain a bit more closely. In the dense vegetation of southern Africa, one's shots will in all likelihood be closer (and the risks from dangerous game thus higher) than in the grasslands of central Africa, where longer-range shots will be more usual. For the latter, you'd want a longer-ranged gun with a decent scope. For the former, something shorter and handier, with a lower-power scope (or no scope at all) is more suitable.
I truly don't know whether one rifle could "do it all" under the range of circumstances and situations and conditions we're looking at here. The best "one-gun-fits-all" approach I could make is to have a good gunsmith make me a custom Mauser or ZKK action bolt rifle, chambered in .500-.450 Nitro. With solids, this would take the smaller stuff without too much flesh damage, and with soft-points, would make an outstanding lion gun. With heavier solids, it'll do well on elephant as well. It's got good close-range "stomping" power to stop or turn a charge, but also has reasonable ballistics for medium ranges (out to 250-300 yards). For sights, I'd want a good iron sight system - probably express sights in heavier bush, aperture sights in more open country - with something like a 1.5-5x variable scope in quick-detach rings.
I'll be interested to see your response to this.
You specify one gun for everything - elephant to eland to dik-dik. This is a very, very difficult proposition. For straightforward hunting, I'd unhesitatingly go with a good rifle in .375 H&H. With a mix of solids and soft-points in different weights, you'll be able to handle just about anything.
However, for the more dangerous stuff, you're not dealing with hunting alone, but also with stopping or charge-turning power. For this, a .375 H&H is not the best choice: but if one goes upscale, even a .458 or .470 is not that great either! Also, the bigger stuff means that your flexibility for the smaller game is greatly reduced.
You also have to specify terrain a bit more closely. In the dense vegetation of southern Africa, one's shots will in all likelihood be closer (and the risks from dangerous game thus higher) than in the grasslands of central Africa, where longer-range shots will be more usual. For the latter, you'd want a longer-ranged gun with a decent scope. For the former, something shorter and handier, with a lower-power scope (or no scope at all) is more suitable.
I truly don't know whether one rifle could "do it all" under the range of circumstances and situations and conditions we're looking at here. The best "one-gun-fits-all" approach I could make is to have a good gunsmith make me a custom Mauser or ZKK action bolt rifle, chambered in .500-.450 Nitro. With solids, this would take the smaller stuff without too much flesh damage, and with soft-points, would make an outstanding lion gun. With heavier solids, it'll do well on elephant as well. It's got good close-range "stomping" power to stop or turn a charge, but also has reasonable ballistics for medium ranges (out to 250-300 yards). For sights, I'd want a good iron sight system - probably express sights in heavier bush, aperture sights in more open country - with something like a 1.5-5x variable scope in quick-detach rings.
I'll be interested to see your response to this.
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Preacherman,
I purposley asked this question because it is such a difficult proposition.
And I think my idea of a .416Rigby to be sound in that it provides a very happy medium between heavy gun and longer range capability.
The .404 an often forgotten yet highly capable round is in a modern loading every bit as capable as the .416.
Along your lines of thought the .458 Lott in a well made bolt gun with a nice low power variable with QD's would also fit the bill quite nicely. That round with a 400gr bullet is as flat shooting as a .375 and with a 500gr bullet it's a serious thumper.
Another round that may be of consideration but hasn't been mentioned would be a .450-400NE double with scope and qd's.
I don't know that I'd go with a .450NE or a 500NE in a bolt gun I would however consider the .450Rigby to be a serious contender. It's a nice round that produces serious energy with a .458 bullet at lower pressure than the lott and higher velocity for reach than the NE's.
As far as where we are hunting. Well lets expand the horizon just to complicate matters a bit.
10days in the Masai steps of Tanzania for buffalo + plains game and lion if possible.
10days in the Selous game reserve fro hippo, croc, leopard and another buffalo.
10days in the Northern Zambezi for sable, lion, leopard and eland.
Elephant, lechwe and situtanga in the Okavango. (Is situtanga even on license in Botswana?) I'd have to look.
Then we'll slip up to CAR or whatever it is called today for a Bongo.
And just to keep everything on the level we'll cruise down to Namibia for some springbok, kudu and gemsbok and if one presents it self a Kalihari lion or leopard hunted using San Bushmen trackers on the ground.
We'll finish off this grand adventure with some Nyala and waterbuck hunting in the Kwa Zulu Natal.
And of course we'd hunt everything from common grey diker and sunni up to Mastodon inbetween.
I hope that has unnarrowed the circumstances for you a bit.
H&H(must be serious geek to even think of such a thing) hunter
I purposley asked this question because it is such a difficult proposition.
And I think my idea of a .416Rigby to be sound in that it provides a very happy medium between heavy gun and longer range capability.
The .404 an often forgotten yet highly capable round is in a modern loading every bit as capable as the .416.
Along your lines of thought the .458 Lott in a well made bolt gun with a nice low power variable with QD's would also fit the bill quite nicely. That round with a 400gr bullet is as flat shooting as a .375 and with a 500gr bullet it's a serious thumper.
Another round that may be of consideration but hasn't been mentioned would be a .450-400NE double with scope and qd's.
I don't know that I'd go with a .450NE or a 500NE in a bolt gun I would however consider the .450Rigby to be a serious contender. It's a nice round that produces serious energy with a .458 bullet at lower pressure than the lott and higher velocity for reach than the NE's.
As far as where we are hunting. Well lets expand the horizon just to complicate matters a bit.
10days in the Masai steps of Tanzania for buffalo + plains game and lion if possible.
10days in the Selous game reserve fro hippo, croc, leopard and another buffalo.
10days in the Northern Zambezi for sable, lion, leopard and eland.
Elephant, lechwe and situtanga in the Okavango. (Is situtanga even on license in Botswana?) I'd have to look.
Then we'll slip up to CAR or whatever it is called today for a Bongo.
And just to keep everything on the level we'll cruise down to Namibia for some springbok, kudu and gemsbok and if one presents it self a Kalihari lion or leopard hunted using San Bushmen trackers on the ground.
We'll finish off this grand adventure with some Nyala and waterbuck hunting in the Kwa Zulu Natal.
And of course we'd hunt everything from common grey diker and sunni up to Mastodon inbetween.
I hope that has unnarrowed the circumstances for you a bit.
H&H(must be serious geek to even think of such a thing) hunter
Preacherman
Member
Makes sense... I like the .416 Rigby very much, and you're right that it's a very versatile round: but I still don't regard it as a "stopping" round against a riled-up elephant. For that purpose, the .458 Lott would certainly make me sleep better. I haven't used the Lott myself, so I wasn't aware of the flat-shooting potential with 400gr. bullets. If it will duplicate .375 H&H trajectories with the lighter bullet, then it certainly becomes a good all-round choice, having the range to work in the grasslands and the close-in stopping power for brush work. Under the circumstances (and given some experience with the round so as to judge for myself) I think that would be my choice. (However, it does sound rather like the ballistics of the .500-.450 Nitro, which is why I chose that round - flat-shooting with lighter bullets, thumper with heavies. Have you ever fired a .500-.450? It's an interesting round.)
As for your mix of terrain, etc. - man, are you a glutton for punishment, or what? I hope you don't expect me to do those things consecutively! I want a month or three in between each hunt, to savor the experience, catch my breath, and get the dust out of my pores!
As for your mix of terrain, etc. - man, are you a glutton for punishment, or what?
I hope you don't expect me to do those things consecutively! I want a month or three in between each hunt, to savor the experience, catch my breath, and get the dust out of my pores!
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Preacherman,
I have not ever shot the .500-450. In fact now that I re-read your post I see that I missunderstood you the first time.
I was under the impression that you were refering to a .500 or a .450 NE. Sorry.
I should think that the .450 Rigby is pretty close to the .500-.450? A .450 Rigby is nothing more than the .416 necked up and in a bolt gun is capable of launching the 500gr projectile at aroung 2300FPS with out to much stress strain or undue punishment on the shooter.
It is basically a low pressure .458 Lott. I have some experience with the Lott and really like it!!
With the 350 gr bullet it becomes a regular varmitt round.
I am not familiar with the .500-.450 due tell............
It's funny but we become accustomed to thinking of the various NE rounds as being capable of launching a .300 SD+ or- round at around 2100FPS. I often forget that these rounds are kept to these levels only for regulation and action integrity in the doubles they are capable of far more in a bolt or falling block gun.
A .470NE in a Ruger Number one can be loaded to fire breather levels in heart beat. (As if you'd need more!)
I have not ever shot the .500-450. In fact now that I re-read your post I see that I missunderstood you the first time.
I was under the impression that you were refering to a .500 or a .450 NE. Sorry.
I should think that the .450 Rigby is pretty close to the .500-.450? A .450 Rigby is nothing more than the .416 necked up and in a bolt gun is capable of launching the 500gr projectile at aroung 2300FPS with out to much stress strain or undue punishment on the shooter.
It is basically a low pressure .458 Lott. I have some experience with the Lott and really like it!!
With the 350 gr bullet it becomes a regular varmitt round.
I am not familiar with the .500-.450 due tell............
It's funny but we become accustomed to thinking of the various NE rounds as being capable of launching a .300 SD+ or- round at around 2100FPS. I often forget that these rounds are kept to these levels only for regulation and action integrity in the doubles they are capable of far more in a bolt or falling block gun.
A .470NE in a Ruger Number one can be loaded to fire breather levels in heart beat. (As if you'd need more!)
Sunray
Member
Go here. Although I think I may have posted this already. A forum where real African PH 's post. And it's interesting for the rest of us nonetheless.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
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Sunray,
Yes you have posted this before. Thank you for sharing this information as that sight has a wealth of expereince in regards to African hunting. I am registered over there as "Surestrike". And I'm not really sure how that happened. I had lost my password and sent for a new one and this is the user name it had attached to my E-mail. Funny I never registered under that name on that sight!!I tried to re-register this user name but it must have already been taken (by me)??.
Maybe one of you computer savy dudes can tell me whats up with that!!
Thanks again.
H&Hhunter.
Yes you have posted this before. Thank you for sharing this information as that sight has a wealth of expereince in regards to African hunting. I am registered over there as "Surestrike". And I'm not really sure how that happened. I had lost my password and sent for a new one and this is the user name it had attached to my E-mail. Funny I never registered under that name on that sight!!I tried to re-register this user name but it must have already been taken (by me)??.
Maybe one of you computer savy dudes can tell me whats up with that!!
Thanks again.
H&Hhunter.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
H&Hhunter,
Contact the administrator at accurate reloading.com, I think his name is Saeed. He can get it straightened out for you. If you registered as H&Hhunter there under an old email address then it can't send you the old password but the administrator can help.
Contact the administrator at accurate reloading.com, I think his name is Saeed. He can get it straightened out for you. If you registered as H&Hhunter there under an old email address then it can't send you the old password but the administrator can help.
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