One more question for a1abdj . . .

[JCinPA]

I don't know why safes are so fascinating, but ever since coming here for help with my lock, I've been reading your posts and looking at web sites. It's probably a guy tool fascination, I suppose, we like tools, cars, anything mechanical.

Anyway, I've become very curious about this clutch drive thing for safe door handles. I don't want to make this brand specific, it's a feature question. Most manufacturers of RSCs anyway (don't know about real safes) tout a clutch drive mechanism so burglars cannot break the lock by forcing the handle. They also tout cam-drive linkage so banging on the bolts won't transfer force to the lock.

One manufacturer touts their cam-drive linkage, but then says they don't use the clutch drive because it could cause a lockout if you carelessly slam the door with an obstruction in it and quickly and forcefully throw the bolts home. You'll jam the bolts against the door jamb and the clutch drive won't let you retract them.

Questions:

Well doesn't banging on the handle with a hammer then transfer that force directly to the lock? The cam-drive prevents that with the bolt banging on the lock, but don't you then kind of nullify that advantage by allowing one to bang on the lock via the handle? Maybe I don't understand the issue.

What do the real burglar safe manufacturers do? Clutch or no clutch?

Finally, as a safe tech, how many lockouts do you see caused by this clutch issue? I would think you'd have to be very careless indeed to slam your safe door on and obstruction and jam your boltwork. I would think not having the clutch drive is a solution in search of a problem. But what do I know?

Thanks, it's fun having a real safe technician around for this stuff. Complete waste of time on my part, but these are fascinating to me.

 

[a1abdj]

One manufacturer touts their cam-drive linkage, but then says they don't use the clutch drive because it could cause a lockout if you carelessly slam the door with an obstruction in it and quickly and forcefully throw the bolts home. You'll jam the bolts against the door jamb and the clutch drive won't let you retract them.

This is true. I have done this myself when adjusting the doors on Liberty safes. If not careful, you can bind the bolts with enough force that they will lock, but not open (easily). The clutch will slip before providing enough force to move the bolts back into the unlocked position.

Well doesn't banging on the handle with a hammer then transfer that force directly to the lock? The cam-drive prevents that with the bolt banging on the lock, but don't you then kind of nullify that advantage by allowing one to bang on the lock via the handle? Maybe I don't understand the issue.

There are a few ways that you can "cam" the boltwork. One of which is a two way system. The first partial turn of the handle moves the part of the boltwork that blocks the rest. The remainder of the turn then retracts the bolts.

What do the real burglar safe manufacturers do? Clutch or no clutch?

A mix of everything. Some use a clutch, some use two stage boltwork, others simply design the handle to snap off or use a shear pin type of system.

Finally, as a safe tech, how many lockouts do you see caused by this clutch issue? I would think you'd have to be very careless indeed to slam your safe door on and obstruction and jam your boltwork. I would think not having the clutch drive is a solution in search of a problem. But what do I know?

I can't recall any recently. There are other handle related problems that pop up from time to time, but clutch problems are rare. The clutch mechanisms are probably better insurance against people who abuse their own safes than actual burglary attempts.

Forcing a handle on a safe that uses a shear pin or other type of system may cause damage that requires a safe tech. If you design a system where the handle spins, then John Q. Safe Owner can't break it when he's man-handling it.

 

[JCinPA]

Thanks again, you are a wealth of information, and I appreciate your input very much.

I see from your website you are in the St. Louis area. I'm not in the market for a new safe, but will be in about 3-4 years. I have sold several more safes for Liberty to friends before reading a lot of your posts . I would likely recommend an Amsec if asked again. Because folks ask me from time to time, I wonder . . .

Can you sell a safe long distance? I suspect companies like Amsec maintain regional warehouses and you do not sell all or even most of your safes from floor inventory, but I don't know. Unless there is a compelling reason to buy locally, I would steer potential buyers to your site because you are so helpful. You can always hire a local company for moving/installation work, and when I bought mine that was not free, anyway.

Anyone who takes as much time as you do posting on this topic is clearly a very service and customer satisfaction oriented dealer. Unless it is not economical, I'd steer folks your way, but I suspect an Amsec (or other safe) ordered from you would ship out of the same warehouse as one ordered from a dealer in my area (Philadelphia).

Thanks again for the knowledge you share.

 

[a1abdj]

We sell used safes locally, new safes nationwide, and have sold our restored safes and vault doors worldwide.

I'm just happy to help. There is so much misinformation as it relates to security products, and the more truth that gets out there, the better off consumers will be.