Safe Locks: Sargent, LaGard, AMSEC.

[snakyjake]

Considering an AMSEC gun safe. The factory installed electronic lock options are Sargent 6120, Sargent 6120EZ, LaGard Basic, or AMSEC ESL, no biometric. I assume Kaba-Mas dual mode is not an option for BF series (or requires special installation that will cost $$$).

How do I decide which to choose?
What is the difference between Sargent EZ and their non-EZ?

Features I want:
Wrong password lockout timer delay (nice to have an indicator too).
Automatically lock safe when door closed, so I don't forget to lock it.
I don't want something that feels cheap or lightweight.

Not sure what this means, or if all the locks have this:
Slam Bolt version for locker applications.
Dead-latched lock design with an internal relock device for maximum security.
Lock “auto-locks” when boltwork is thrown to prevent safes from being left in a day lock position.

The one concern I still have is the robustness of elecronic locks. The ones I've seen are easy to remove from the door, and can easily rip out the cord if you frustrate the one trying to get in (or some bratty neighbor kid). The cord looks like a telphone/network cable. If the cord is damaged deep enough inside the door, I assume that is very bad and going to cost me drilling and a new door. Too bad the connection between the lock and the door isn't more robust, just something to mitigate someone who yanks on the cord.

Thanks. Jake.

 

[eiresurg]

Can't answer any of your questions . . .

But, the automatic lock when door closes option doesn't sound like a good idea if you have kids around. Also, I too have concerns about the electronic locks for the same reason. Plus there's the whole need for power (plug or batteries) that doesn't thrill me. That's my 2 cents. Good luck.

 

[opsman]

I'm an old fashioned guy I chose the manual lock for a number of reasons, mainly when I walked into a dealer and touched the electronic lock, the whole assembly fell into my hands, I was not impressed. Sure the batteries last a long time and it's quicker to open, but I would rather have the security that I do not need batteries.

 

[PPS43]

There is usually a mechanical override that can be used when electronic lock is broken or its batteries are dead. On many safes it is just a simple wafer or tubular lock that is much easier to defeat than the electronic lock. If so, I recommend replacing it with Abloy from securitysnobs.com. Should cost you around $50.

 

[heeler]

I am not beating on a persons choice of selection between the old fashion dial lock vs electronic lock but honestly the difference between opening of the two different systems is 10 to maybe 15 seconds.
The reliability forecast between the two is a total different issue.
Although a dial lock can fail an electronic lock will fail more times on an average and probably a lot sooner.
Just google it to find out.
Quite a few stories to read.
If I owned a cheap safe with a flimsy built up composite refrigerator door I would not be that concerned having to drill the door.
Frankly,I would puke at the thought of having to have my Amsec BF's half inch plate steel door drilled.
YMMV.

 

[solidheart]

Best elock fit for a BF

If you are going to get an electronic lock I would recommend getting the Esl10xl. Its Amsecs own lock and you might have better luck with warranty issues and such if there are any problems in the future. These locks work great when they are used properly. For better reliability go mechanical. An elock is not a necessity unless fast access is a must. I'm sorry I can't answer any of your other questions.

 

[opsman]

I agree with the comments by heeler, I too am not going to bash anyone's choice of locks, it's a matter of personal preference. But like he says, the very thought of having to drill through that 1/2" plate steel, ummm I don't know. Google the locks you have listed, study all the reports on them and then make the choice you feel is best for you and your needs. Both heeler and I are not pro's by any means, but both of us have done our homework before making a purchase. It's a lot to consider and a quality RSC is not cheap, I looked at mine as a lifetime investment that can be passed down to my son who enjoys firearms I think even more than I do. Sorry I cannot be of any assistance in answering your questions directly but, the internet is full of info. Best of luck to you on your purchase, the AMSEC BF is highly regarded.

 

[a1abdj]

Considering an AMSEC gun safe. The factory installed electronic lock options are Sargent 6120, Sargent 6120EZ, LaGard Basic, or AMSEC ESL, no biometric. I assume Kaba-Mas dual mode is not an option for BF series (or requires special installation that will cost $$$).

Is there any reason that it has to be a factory installed lock? If it's a local dealer, he should be a safe company or locksmith, and can install any lock you would like. Even if you are having it shipped (I'd still suggest shopping locally first if you can), a local tech can swap locks for you.

Otherwise I'm assuming you're looking online, and the person selling them can't answer these questions. This is one of the problems I have with retailers selling stuff that they really have no business selling.

What is the difference between Sargent EZ and their non-EZ?

I'm not the number one source for all things S&G related, but I don't believe there is a difference. The 6120 is the lock body. Different models have different numbers, although there have been different versions of the individual models indicated by a colored band on the wiring.

Wrong password lockout timer delay (nice to have an indicator too).

All UL rated Type 1 electronic locks will have this feature.

Automatically lock safe when door closed, so I don't forget to lock it.

Not all electronic locks do this. If you have to unlock the lock manually, you typically have to relock it manually (not always). If the lock unlocks on its own, it will relock on its own.

I don't want something that feels cheap or lightweight.

Just about everything consumer grade will fit this description. As you move up to the commercial locks, you'll start seeing some metal used in the keypads. Doesn't make them any more reliable, they are just a bit more robust.

Not sure what this means, or if all the locks have this:
Slam Bolt version for locker applications.
Dead-latched lock design with an internal relock device for maximum security.
Lock “auto-locks” when boltwork is thrown to prevent safes from being left in a day lock position

You'll never see a slam bolt lock used on a typical safe. They are usually seen in internal lockers. The dead lock feature is fairly common on standard bolt locks.

The one concern I still have is the robustness of elecronic locks. The ones I've seen are easy to remove from the door, and can easily rip out the cord if you frustrate the one trying to get in (or some bratty neighbor kid). The cord looks like a telphone/network cable. If the cord is damaged deep enough inside the door, I assume that is very bad and going to cost me drilling and a new door. Too bad the connection between the lock and the door isn't more robust, just something to mitigate someone who yanks on the cord.

This describes almost every lock on the market. I wouldn't be overly concerned about it.

Of the locks you haven't mentioned yet, there are a lot of Globalok fans out there in my line of work. Your local dealer should know where to get them.

 

[snakyjake]

I don't know much about locks, so never really thought about having a non-factory installed locked. But now you have me thinking...

What makes Globaloks different?

Is this a safe technician install, or DIY (I'm not sure how easy it will be to find someone in Seattle Area).

Globalok's has combo+key models. I assume the key is to bypass the electronics if the electronics fail. If so, that brings up the question of a thief picking the lock and gaining entry.

It appears Globalok doesn't use a motor to move the locking bolt. I presume this is one of the failures of other electronic locks, that Globalok won't have.

Jake

 

[a1abdj]

What makes Globaloks different?

They have an almost perfect track record. Several techs use them, and there have been very few (if any) reported problems with them. The designer has also made himself available to help diagnose the occasional issues that pop up from time to time.

The keypad is metal, and it is made in Canada instead of China.

Is this a safe technician install, or DIY (I'm not sure how easy it will be to find someone in Seattle Area).

More likely than not. There are several safe techs in the Seattle area.

Globalok's has combo+key models. I assume the key is to bypass the electronics if the electronics fail. If so, that brings up the question of a thief picking the lock and gaining entry.

The key is for dual custody, not a bypass. The key retracts the lock bolt after the combination has been entered. They also have a non keyed model that you simply twist to open.

It appears Globalok doesn't use a motor to move the locking bolt. I presume this is one of the failures of other electronic locks, that Globalok won't have.

They aren't the only company to have this feature, but it is a way to reduce failures.

 

[CB900F]

Snaky;

I'm a professional locksmith & I specialize in safe sales. I have an electronic lock on my personal safe, but it's not one of your choices. Of what you've listed, my preference is the LaGard basic. We've had very good reliability with it over both a large number of safe sales and a fair number of years.

However, I will point out that no electronic lock can have the history of general reliability of the mechanicals, which also fail you know.

900F

 

[snakyjake]

a1abdj, thanks for the info. I contacted Stephan of Globaloks for someone in my area that sells/services.

CB900F, I'm willing to expand my options for a better lock.

 

[snakyjake]

Can someone please explain the advantages or differences upgrading to a better lock? I don't understand the internal differences (swing bolt, pivot bolt, rotary bolt, solenoid, direct drive, etc). I'm still trying to find a good local dealer that knows what they are doing so they can help explain to me.

I'm liking the idea of an electronic combo + mechanical bolt....if I think I know what it is.

Jake

 

[a1abdj]

Can someone please explain the advantages or differences upgrading to a better lock? I don't understand the internal differences (swing bolt, pivot bolt, rotary bolt, solenoid, direct drive, etc). I'm still trying to find a good local dealer that knows what they are doing so they can help explain to me.

You probably have a bunch of these terms mixed up, so I'll try to split it back apart for you. The two main types of electronic locks you'll see on the main door of a typical safe are a swing bolt, or a dead bolt.

A swing bolt is a lock that has a bolt that pivots on one side. The lock doesn't extend or retract a bolt on its own. When you turn the handle of the safe, that puts pressure on the non pivoting side of the lock. When the correct combination is entered, this bolt folds up into the lock body as that pressure from the boltwork pushes it.

A dead bolt is a lock that has a bolt that slides in and out of the lock. This bolt may be motorized, or use a turning keypad to retract and extend the bolt.

A slam bolt lock is called that because it locks on its own as you shut (slam) the door. This type of bolt is similar to the typical latch on a door. It is tapered on one end, that allows the closing pressure to push the bolt back into the lock body. You typically do not see this type of lock used where boltwork is involved. These are more common on interior lockers where the lock is the sole locking point.

A swing bolt lock uses either a solenoid or motor (much more common on new locks) to block the bolt from moving. Since it's not moving much, it has a fairly low power draw. This would also hold true to a dead bolt lock that uses a manual system to retract and extend the bolt. A motorized deadbolt lock will go through batteries faster, and has another set of moving parts which can cause problems.

The S&G 6120 (and similar), and AMSEC ESLs are motorized deadbolts. S&G's Z02 Direct Drive (and similar), LaGard 33Es, and Globaloks are manually operated deadbolts. The LaGard Basic, is a swingbolt.

 

[snakyjake]

When choosing a lock/bolt, what is important to know, and why?

I'm leaning towards a manually operated deadbolt because I'm assuming the mechanics are simpler and less potential for problems. Not sure if there's much difference of the three mentioned, and perhaps just a choice of dealer support?

 

[a1abdj]

When choosing a lock/bolt, what is important to know, and why?

I can't say that it really matters much. A punch attack may be a consideration, as each type of lock would require a specific angle to be effective. Otherwise each type of lock is known for it's own particular type of failures above and beyond the standard electronic glitches.

Really, of all the locks that have been mentioned, the S&G 6120 is the only one that I wouldn't use on any of my personal safes.

I'm leaning towards a manually operated deadbolt because I'm assuming the mechanics are simpler and less potential for problems. Not sure if there's much difference of the three mentioned, and perhaps just a choice of dealer support?

The mechanics are roughly the same, it's just using a mechanical retraction method instead of a motor or solenoid. It will be more reliable.