Open Carry- I CAN!

[DrewBegley]

I've been open carrying in VA since I was 18 and have never had any problems with it except on private property, but that's for another rant. I know I can carry any where that is public property in VA and any where that does not have "POSTED: NO FIREARMS" in their window, but all the laws I've seen for VA include the term "CCW". Well what about us citizens that legally open carry under 21? I catch crap all day from OTHER CIVILIANS about how I must be a cop, have a permit or just plain can not carry and I've never ever been approached by an officer about confiscating it or hauling me off to jail because I CAN OPEN CARRY. Are Virginians really this ignorant of their own 2nd Amendment? Have any story that fits my profile?

 

[Johnny_Come_Lately]

I've been open carrying in VA since I was 18 and have never had any problems with it except on private property, but that's for another rant.

Don't rant. Though I'm all about the right to carry, and never leave home without a firearm, be it OC or CC, I'm equally aware of my rights as a property owner. On my property, I make the rules. When in Rome, do as…

I catch crap all day from OTHER CIVILIANS about how I must be a cop, have a permit or just plain can not carry and I've never ever been approached by an officer about confiscating it or hauling me off to jail because I CAN OPEN CARRY.

Unless you purpose to open carry is to provoke and or bait, why would you care about what people think?

Are Virginians really this ignorant of their own 2nd Amendment?

Perhaps they do not feel as passionate regarding the carrying of a weapon as you. Remember, it is their right to feel as they do, such that it is your right to feel the way you do.

 

[627PCFan]

If your living in NOVA, people dont necessarily see alot of OC and most dont know the gun laws/rights.

FWIW I prefer to OC in public and then cover up in stores/businesses (just to avoid issues). I have yet had anyone give me crap about it and dont really think it would matter.

 

[Axel Larson]

I do not OC most of the time for the fact that people may feel uneasy. The couple times I have open carried all I got were weird looks. The only time i had anyone say anything was a woman in one of my classes when I mentioned that I carry when it is legal to do so. She was convinced that you needed to have your firearm (licensed) to carry it. This is Vermont I am 20 I can carry concealed or open.

 

[jonnyc]

FWIW, lots of gun people, including some of us who almost always carry concealed, think open carry is not such a good idea.
1. Overt "in your face" political statement, usually unwelcome. An additional "black eye" for the pro-gun cause.
2. Can be taken much easier than a CW.
3. Makes you an automatic first target in a crime situation.

"in one of my classes"
What kind of school was it? Are you SURE it was legal to carry there?

 

[merlinfire]

1. Overt "in your face" political statement, usually unwelcome. An additional "black eye" for the pro-gun cause.

One word. Desensitization. I don't OC but I can see the logic in it. If it became more common it would not freak people out as much.

 

[mgmorden]

One word. Desensitization. I don't OC but I can see the logic in it. If it became more common it would not freak people out as much.

Indeed. Repeated exposure can creep up on people. A coworker and myself at work are both shooters, and we occasionally talk guns at work. Another ex-British coworker of ours was a little uncomfortable with that at first, and wasn't staunch, but occasionally injected minor anti-gun statements (not completely anti-gun, but wondering "Why people are allowed to own so many?" or about certain types of guns like "assault rifles").

Eventually after a few months he had worn down to being ok with people owning such weapons, but guns just "weren't for him".

Fast forward another year and a half or so and the guy is a regular at the range and owned a Glock, Remington 700, and an AR15 .

 

[NavyLCDR]

FWIW, lots of gun people, including some of us who almost always carry concealed, think open carry is not such a good idea.
1. Overt "in your face" political statement, usually unwelcome. An additional "black eye" for the pro-gun cause.
2. Can be taken much easier than a CW.
3. Makes you an automatic first target in a crime situation.

1. I don't carry my gun "in your face". I carry my gun in a holster on my belt.

1. I don't carry my gun openly to make any political statements. I carry my gun openly because I would rather deter a crime from happening to me and my family rather than defending myself or my family from a crime after it has already begun. Why put myself and my family through the trauma and legal consequences of being attacked and potentially shooting someone if I could have deterred the attack from ever beginning? Concealed carry and "the element of surprise" have no deterrent value because the criminal can't see anything that would indicate the presence of grave consequences of attacking that particular target.

1. Seems like people who exercise their rights or attempt to gain recognition of their rights are unwelcome by those who are "offended" by those rights. Examples: Rosa Parks, Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr. Their actions were unwelcomed a large percentage of the population as well.

2. There a much more easier ways for a person or criminal to obtain a gun than to take it from an armed citizen. If it is so easy for an openly carried gun to be snatched, then why do we not see reports of it happening? Wouldn't the anti-gun media be all over openly carried guns being snatched and be shouting it from the roof tops?

3. Urban myth and theory existing only in the minds of people who don't like open carry for some reason or another. It simply has not been reported to happen in reality. The years long challenge to show us an example of an open carrier target first in a crime is still unanswered.

A criminal who is evaluating a target for mugging, or looking at a convenience store or other business - and sees a person with a gun there - why in heck would they choose to attack that particular target and risk the increased chances of getting caught or shot at? Why would attack that particular target and raise the charge from robbery to a possible shootout level? Criminals aren't stupid. They have no reason to attack the target with an armed person there when they can easily wait two minutes for the guy to leave or go down the street one block where they will have a plethora of targets that don't appear to be armed.

99.5% of the population is not visibly armed. It makes no sense for any criminal to target the .5% of the population that is visibly armed. It just ain't that hard for a criminal to get a gun in a manner that does not increase their likelihood of getting shot at or caught or killed.

The American public is never going to accept that it is normal for Americans to be able to protect themselves from crime by carrying a gun if we continue to treat carrying a gun as something abnormal. The American public is never going to change their feelings about guns if the only image they see of guns is from anti-gun media and anti-gun groups.

 

[Mainsail]

1. Overt "in your face" political statement, usually unwelcome. An additional "black eye" for the pro-gun cause.

An assumption on your part, both in the reasoning and in the outcome. I don’t OC to make any political statement, and only a few OCers actually do. Nevertheless, if you genuinely believe that a citizen witnessing the peaceful and uneventful carry of a firearm gives a “black eye” to the cause, then I suspect you either didn’t really think before you made that statement or you feel some residual guilt or shame in firearms ownership.

2. Can be taken much easier than a CW.

You’re equating ‘can’ with ‘will’. It’s a false argument even if you have some empirical evidence to back it up. You don’t. CWs are ‘taken’ and there is evidence that it has happened, but nobody is going to stop carrying concealed due to that fact.

3. Makes you an automatic first target in a crime situation.

Unlike #2 above, you make this a positive statement, when it is at best a personal fantasy you have concocted. I’ve been carrying openly for over five years now, and I keep a keen eye out for any published news story reporting such an occurrence, yet none has appeared. You might say instead, “In my fantasy world, I can conceive of someone getting shot first when carrying openly”. Viewing your statement from a logical standpoint, it doesn’t make sense that it would happen. Every study ever done on the subject concludes that criminals overwhelmingly avoid victims they know or believe to be armed. Not some, not most, but EVERY study. Your fantasy is not supported by the available facts.

Every time someone starts a thread with the words “open carry” someone tries to derail the topic with unsubstantiated and rather silly arguments against it, and every time they are shown to be completely wrong in their statements and assumptions. So please, either come up with a new argument against OC, or don’t post. Regurgitating the same silly arguments that have already been shown to be unsupportable is the epitome of foolish.

 

[ForumSurfer]

1. Overt "in your face" political statement, usually unwelcome. An additional "black eye" for the pro-gun cause.

Depends entirely on where you open carry. Around here, it isn't uncommon nor unwelcome. I wouldn't call it a "black-eye for the pro-gun cause." I would call it an exercise of one's rights if it is legal.

2. Can be taken much easier than a CW.

Depends entirely on the holster. In a struggle, if someone noticed I was carrying IWB all they need to do is yank my weapon. I carry IWB concealed with strictly open top holsters. Now if you grab my OWB holster meant for open carry, you can literally pick my feet off the ground and not get the gun nor the holster off of my body. One would need to glance at my holster and figure out how to retrieve my firearm. So how is open carry much easier to grab?

3. Makes you an automatic first target in a crime situation.

Not that dead horse again. This simply isn't true and has been argued to death with no statistics or any other proof given.

Granted, I mostly conceal carry. I do sometimes open carry. But you are making open carry sound like a bad thing when it simply isn't.

 

[hermannr]

I OC because with the firearms I have it is easier to OC, especially in the summer.

I have a license, and carry the same pistols, in the same manner in the winter, but they are under my coat in the winter, therefore concealed.

Fortunately I live in a state and county where the difference is no big deal. You can carry open, or, with a license, you can CC.

I like NavyLCDR's example of Rosa Parks...you can bet she made a lot of people on that bus VERY uncomfortable...But she was not doing anything wrong, was she?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Fortunately I live in a state and county where the difference is no big deal.

Washington - not a big deal as far as the law goes, and as far as the public goes. 95% of the public here either don't notice or don't care.

 

[Axel Larson]

To Jonnyc I did not say I was carry at the class, I wasn't, I do not carry near school or any place that it is forbidden to do so. I mentioned that the conversation came up about carry concealed because my project was gun related.

 

[jonnyc]

"then I suspect you either didn’t really think before you made that statement or you feel some residual guilt or shame in firearms ownership."

Well, then you would foolishly suspect in error. And I'll stick with my opinion, thanks, as I also have a right to them. I doubt there are very few members here who are more "pro-gun" than myself, or have less "residual guilt" over their firearms, but when I see a guy carrying openly my first thought is always "what an a**".
Of course YMMV according to the social mores of your locale, but that's how I feel in my little corner of paradise.

 

[azmjs]

"because I can" is sort of an 18-year old reason for doing something

 

[NavyLCDR]

but when I see a guy carrying openly my first thought is always "what an a**".

Negatively judging a person because they care enough about themselves and their families to have the means available to defend themselves and to do so in a manner more likely to deter a crime than not. NICE.

 

[Mainsail]

I doubt there are very few members here who are more "pro-gun" than myself…but when I see a guy carrying openly my first thought is always "what an a**

Which is the same as saying, “I’m pro-gun but only if you do it my way”. You haven’t presented a single reasonable argument against open carry, yet you view people that do as a**es.

This is the same reasoning that gets black rifles banned while the fuds stand by claiming that anyone that wants a gun that holds more than five rounds is an a**. I’m glad that the firearms community has finally, after such a long time, found the standard by which carry can be judged.

If you can present an argument against open carry, let’s hear it! So far the three points you’ve offered have been thoroughly debunked, so what else do you have to support your opinion?

 

[jonnyc]

"they care enough about themselves and their families to have the means available to defend themselves"

Hmmm...seems rather pompous and opinionated. I guess I don't care enough 'cuz I only carry concealed?

"thoroughly debunked"

No, not really, just opposed by your opinion. I'll stick with mine, thanks. And your antagonistic replies only go to support my opinion that many open-carriers are just trying to make that "I-can-'cuz-the-Constitution-says-I can" political statement.
You guys can do it your "loud" way and I'll continue to do it my "quiet" way, and I hope none of us ever have to put our choices to the test.
G'nite.

 

[Hammerogod]

When I am Backpacking, Hunting, Fishing or exploring in the Desert and Mountains I sometime OC.
So far nobody has ever said a word.
It's mostly a non-issue.

I live in New Mexico and OC is going through a Sea Change...it's most certainly on the upswing.
I see more and more holstered guns on store owners (and some employees).

The problems start when you want to drop into a restaurant or any place that is "Posted" (Hospitals, Clinics, Post Office).
What do you do with the gun?
My Holster Gun is NOT conveniently 'Concealable'...lots of gun and lots of leather etc.
I do not have a CC but even if I did the problem of concealing a Blackhawk is a problem indeed.
It's like trying to hide a Volkswagon in your Living Room.

OK...yes..I understand that I can carry a smaller gun...I certainly have one available.
But that still doesn't solve the problem of entering "Posted" places.

I prefer to keep the gun in my truck and easily reachable (this includes all of the guns I am likely to leave the house with)...and hope I can get to it in time.
So..At this point in time, even though I am armed and experienced, I am still unarmed when I am in some places that have a historical potential of being just THE places where the trouble happens.

I guess I will break down and get a CC.

1) Complete two-page application
2) Photocopy of New Mexico Driver License or ID
3) $100.00 Application Fee
4) Certified Original Birth Certificate
5) Training Certificate
6) Two Fingerprint Cards, complete and signed
7) Health Information Release Form
8) Authorization for Release of Information

What a load of BS, every 4 years, but it's probably worth it.

Great Wiki Article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry
(I am not responsible for any errors or inaccuracies)

 

[NavyLCDR]

"they care enough about themselves and their families to have the means available to defend themselves"

Hmmm...seems rather pompous and opinionated. I guess I don't care enough 'cuz I only carry concealed?

I never said you didn't care enough, did I? I never said concealed carry was bad or wrong, did I? I don't care how you carry your gun. I won't judge you by the way you carry your gun. You are the one pompous and opinionated enough to judge a person based solely upon an inanimate object that they are carrying on their belt.

 

[Hammerogod]

I have a confession to make.
I am a bit uncomfortable when I see a non-LEO carrying OC in public places.
I have no problem with OC out in the Boondocks but when I see it in a City Park i look the person over very carefully and keep an eye on them.
OC is 'Legal' but is it appropriate for every setting?

My gut instinct says that it is too "In Your Face".
Plus --> Throwing a Frisbee with a Glock on each hip is not practical.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have a confession to make.
I am a bit uncomfortable when I see a non-LEO carrying OC in public places.
I have no problem with OC out in the Boondocks but when I see it in a City Park i look the person over very carefully and keep an eye on them.

I have just the opposite reactions myself.

I am a bit uncomfortable when I see a LEO carrying OC in public places.
I have no problem with OC out in the Boondocks but when I see it in a City Park I am likely to approach the person and say HI! What caliber are you carrying!

A 2006 FBI study showed that criminals almost never open carry and they rarely use holsters:
http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=62

New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

CONCEALMENT.

The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ARPFOCOH/petition.html

A recent FBI study concludes that criminals do not open carry handguns and “eschew holsters” because they do not want to draw attention to themselves. Anthony Pinizzotto, et al., Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers, FBI (2006) (finding that violent criminals carefully "conceal" their guns and "eschew holsters"), summary available at http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=62

 

[SMITHWESS]

One thing you can say about CC vs OC, is that a concealed handgun is only a reactionary tool. Until you pull it, you look like any other easy prey.

Most street thugs tend to think twice about assailing an armed individual, and most think OC'ers are off duty cops at least initially.

There are benefits to both, and I carry both ways depending on where and when.

 

[Mainsail]

And your antagonistic replies only go to support my opinion that many open-carriers are just trying to make that "I-can-'cuz-the-Constitution-says-I can" political statement.

Antagonistic? No, I’m merely trying to goad you into presenting a reasonable argument. Simply stating your opinion without any intellectual foundation is useless. I’m not trying to run you off I’m trying to get you to stay! I want you to tell me why open carry makes me an a**.

We both have opinions, the difference is that I can support my opinion with reason, you so far have not. I can also support my opinion with years of real experience carrying openly in Tacoma, daily; a city that’s no stranger to violent crime, gangs, and drugs. All you’ve done is blurt out sound bites (post #5) which were shown by several people to be fallacies. Then, instead of trying to support your sound bites, you say, “…I'll stick with my opinion, thanks…”. Isn’t that the very same approach the Brady’s and their ilk use? Don’t we all scratch our heads and marvel at their obtuse foolishness when they do it? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having and expressing an opinion, but stubbornly digging in your heels when it’s been plainly shown that your opinion is erroneous is…well, I’d rather keep this High Road and not say it out loud.

No, I’m not trying to antagonize you, I would just appreciate a little bit of a challenge in this debate.

 

[Black Knight]

Some parts of Virginia thinks differently. Now some of those you call Virginians may not be Virginians at all. They may very well be transplants who moved here from some "foreign" state like New Jersey and the like. Also rememeber that Virginia has a thriving tourist trade and these folks may have very little idea of what Virginia laws allow.