Open carry in Texas 'much ado about nothing,' despite doomsayers' predictions

[Agsalaska]

I think some of you completely miss the point about these businesses that are putting up these signs. There has been a significant increase in 30.06 and 30.07 signs put up since the legalization of OC. I believe a lot of this was brought on by the OC clowns that showed up in force last summer.

Contrary to most on this board, the majority of these businesses do not have an opinion one war or another on guns. They are not in or even interested in the gun debate and have no idea what kind of backlash they may or may not receive by putting these signs up. But they did see the crap going on last summer and wanted to avoid it in their stores.

Second, They are selling the signs as a package and so people are buying them and putting them up as a package.

Third, a lot of these businesses seek out legal advice. Probably enough said on this point.

Fourth, we have been absolutely flooded with immigrants from other states in the last 20 years that have brought their politics with them.



I have seen two people open carry. One looked like the biggest goober you could imagine, complete with tactical pants tucked into some sort of low profile boots. The other guy looked like a contractor and was about as normal as he could be.

 

[Sam1911]

Fourth, we have been absolutely flooded with immigrants from other states in the last 20 years that have brought their politics with them.

You'd think that would be a boon to the open carry movement as TX is one of the very few states where OC was illegal. People coming from other places are undoubtedly not so up-in-arms over it as Texans are.

 

[Agsalaska]

You'd think that would be a boon to the open carry movement as TX is one of the very few states where OC was illegal. People coming from other places are undoubtedly not so up-in-arms over it as Texans are.

Man I just do not see all of these Texans or anyone else for that matter so 'up in arms' about it. What I do see is the effects of gerrymandering. Texas has two of the largest cities in the US and with that a lot of the inner city politics that makes the rest of Texas kin to the flyover country. The dems control the areas inside the loop in Houston and Dallas, most of Austin, east Fort Worth, and parts of San Antonio. Becausue of the makeup of their districts they have the ability to fight for their national causes at the state level fairly comfortably. That gives them enough political power in Austin to at least require some attention. But ultimately they lose the governors race by 20 points.

Again, a lot of these 30.07 signs are corporate, or they are popping up in places where business owners are just not in touch with the argument either way and just want to avoid it. We chose not to do it but it did reach the agenda(or council that advises us during policy meetings was in favor of it). I think thats where a lot of it comes from as well.
I do know that some that have gone up have already come down. I think it will continue.

 

[GEM]

Having lived in multiple OC states, see it. I've even seen it places whee the internet says you cannot open carry because you'll get kicked out (I've even open carried dozens of times to places the internet says you can't)

To clarify - I have not seen it in the major metropolitan areas in several OC states that I have had significant time in.

Thus, its general utility seems to escape most. Losing CHL rights in TX is more important.

 

[Warp]

Man I just do not see all of these Texans or anyone else for that matter so 'up in arms' about it. What I do see is the effects of gerrymandering. Texas has two of the largest cities in the US and with that a lot of the inner city politics that makes the rest of Texas kin to the flyover country. The dems control the areas inside the loop in Houston and Dallas, most of Austin, east Fort Worth, and parts of San Antonio. Becausue of the makeup of their districts they have the ability to fight for their national causes at the state level fairly comfortably. That gives them enough political power in Austin to at least require some attention. But ultimately they lose the governors race by 20 points.

Again, a lot of these 30.07 signs are corporate, or they are popping up in places where business owners are just not in touch with the argument either way and just want to avoid it. We chose not to do it but it did reach the agenda(or council that advises us during policy meetings was in favor of it). I think thats where a lot of it comes from as well.
I do know that some that have gone up have already come down. I think it will continue.

Plenty of states have large cities/urban areas swaying the way the whole state goes politically/in regard to statutes. Yet Texas is way, way behind the curve on handgun carry (expensive licenses, long training classes, testing/shooting requirements, open carry, places off limits)

 

[Agsalaska]

Plenty of states have large cities/urban areas swaying the way the whole state goes politically/in regard to statutes. Yet Texas is way, way behind the curve on handgun carry (expensive licenses, long training classes, testing/shooting requirements, open carry, places off limits)

Yea. Lots of states do. Like Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and California.

None of those things you mentioned make Texas 'way behind'. A lot of those measures are supported, for better or worse, by the same people that got the law passed. For example, 30.07 is considered, rightly, a property rights issue. And most here would not consider any of the other measures you mentioned prohibitive. We are not Arizona. But I do not know about 'way behind.' For $135 and a four hour class you can get a CHL(A movement originally lead by Texas in the '90s) that is renewable in 5 years for $35.

 

[Warp]

Yea. Lots of states do. Like Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and California.

Like Illinois, Pennsylvania, Arizona. Those three states have cities in the top 6 for population nationwide, yet look at their carry laws, particularly AZ and PA.

None of those things you mentioned make Texas 'way behind'. A lot of those measures are supported, for better or worse, by the same people that got the law passed. For example, 30.07 is considered, rightly, a property rights issue. And most here would not consider any of the other measures you mentioned prohibitive. We are not Arizona. But I do not know about 'way behind.' For $135 and a four hour class you can get a CHL(A movement originally lead by Texas in the '90s) that is renewable in 5 years for $35.

Not having open handgun carry till 2016 puts you way behind.

Most here would absolutely consider mandatory training to be prohibitive. Don't believe me? Start a thread asking if government mandated training is prohibitive.

Fortunately TX's absolutely asinine CHL costs came down, recently it was hundreds of dollars and an eight hour course. Way. Behind.

BTW: I've been licensed by three states and the most expensive was like $60 with no training required. In some states no license is required, in Indiana you can get a LIFETIME carry license with no training and basically nothing off limits*, at the age of 18, for $135

*Off top of my head, schools k-12, riverboat casinos, and places you go through armed security with metal detectors are basically the entire list.

There are just so many states with such better laws. TX is...slowly...moving in the right direction, but is most certainly behind the majority handgun carry laws

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

For the crowd worried about he possibility of being profiled by criminals because of having to disarm due to the largely non-existent -07 signs or the dangers of NDs while holstering/unholstering for storage, I have three suggestions: 1) Safariland QLS. 2) Snap loop holsters 3) Paddle holsters.

As for how well some people think Texas holds up on the mysterious sliding scale of wonderful gun freedoms. We don't care. That's one of the things about Texans. We really, truly don't care how you think we should do it.

 

[Sam1911]

We don't care. That's one of the things about Texans. We really, truly don't care how you think we should do it.

Lol.

While I agree that the " So Texas isn't the gun owner Valhalla they claim to be? " type comments are trite and childish and gawdawful tiresome, I think there's something useful in the more nation-wide view that the 'net can provide.

While Texans don't ever, ever have a huge chip on their shoulder about how awesome their [strike]republic[/strike] state is, it can be a mighty useful thing for those fighting to improve the laws there to be able to look at the rest of the country and see the profound evidence of success in trying the social experiment of looser gun laws.

Even us Yankees can encourage and support our Texican brothers trying to make their very special part of the world an even better place to live.

 

[Agsalaska]

Like Illinois, Pennsylvania, Arizona. Those three states have cities in the top 6 for population nationwide, yet look at their carry laws, particularly AZ and PA.



Not having open handgun carry till 2016 puts you way behind.

Most here would absolutely consider mandatory training to be prohibitive. Don't believe me? Start a thread asking if government mandated training is prohibitive.

Fortunately TX's absolutely asinine CHL costs came down, recently it was hundreds of dollars and an eight hour course. Way. Behind.

BTW: I've been licensed by three states and the most expensive was like $60 with no training required. In some states no license is required, in Indiana you can get a LIFETIME carry license with no training and basically nothing off limits*, at the age of 18, for $135

*Off top of my head, schools k-12, riverboat casinos, and places you go through armed security with metal detectors are basically the entire list.

There are just so many states with such better laws. TX is...slowly...moving in the right direction, but is most certainly behind the majority handgun carry laws

OK Great. so 2 out of the 8 mentioned have what you would consider better laws. Therefore we must be way behind. Right.

This logic makes absolutely no sense at all. We are way behind because of how our laws used to be written? Because the way things used to be? Because we used to not allow for open carry? Because it used to be an 8 hour course and cost $300?

Of course, Texas led the way in the last wave of CCW reforms late in the last century. So doesn't that make us ahead? Somehow? Maybe?

And yes, many on here would consider having to shoot an extremely easy 50 shots in a 4 hour class to be prohibitive. This is a gun web sight. Of course that would happen. Most of the real world where the voting masses and common sense live something like that would not be considered prohibitive. That is easy politics. Its called playing the fringes to the middle.

 

[Warp]

OK Great. so 2 out of the 8 mentioned have what you would consider better laws. Therefore we must be way behind. Right.

This logic makes absolutely no sense at all. We are way behind because of how our laws used to be written? Because the way things used to be? Because we used to not allow for open carry? Because it used to be an 8 hour course and cost $300?

Of course, Texas led the way in the last wave of CCW reforms late in the last century. So doesn't that make us ahead? Somehow? Maybe?

And yes, many on here would consider having to shoot an extremely easy 50 shots in a 4 hour class to be prohibitive. This is a gun web sight. Of course that would happen. Most of the real world where the voting masses and common sense live something like that would not be considered prohibitive. That is easy politics. Its called playing the fringes to the middle.

Is this really what it's come to?

Texans saying they have good carry laws because they are better than NY, HI, NJ, MA?

I think that alone tells the whole story.

PS: Texas didn't lead the way. Florida did.

PPS: Yes, mandatory training to carry a gun absolutely is prohibitive and it should not be that way

 

[Agsalaska]

Is this really what it's come to?

Texans saying they have good carry laws because they are better than NY, HI, NJ, MA?

I think that alone tells the whole story.

PS: Texas didn't lead the way. Florida did.

PPS: Yes, mandatory training to carry a gun absolutely is prohibitive and it should not be that way

Trying to help you with logic and perspective. Something Texans always seem to have to do when dealing with others.

 

[Warp]

Trying to help you with logic and perspective. Something Texans always seem to have to do when dealing with others.

Perspective...yes...Texas has better carry laws than New Jersey. Congratulations.

Everything I said stands BTW.

 

[Agsalaska]

Perspective...yes...Texas has better carry laws than New Jersey. Congratulations.

Everything I said stands BTW.

Warp. You made a present statement saying how Texas is 'way behind' and gave past examples as evidence.

Sure. Your points still stand. Great. Well done sir. I cannot argue with such logic.

 

[Warp]

Warp. You made a present statement saying how Texas is 'way behind' and gave past examples as evidence.

Sure. Your points still stand. Great. Well done sir. I cannot argue with such logic.

Not passing open carry until 2016 puts you behind.

Requiring many hours of training to get a $100+ carry license puts you behind.

Requiring open carry to specifically on the belt or a shoulder holster puts you behind.

ETA: Colleges, sporting events, 51%, amusement parks...not really where we want to be

 

[Agsalaska]

Not passing open carry until 2016 puts you behind.

Requiring many hours of training to get a $100+ carry license puts you behind.

Requiring open carry to specifically on the belt or a shoulder holster puts you behind.

ETA: Colleges, sporting events, 51%, amusement parks...not really where we want to be

The first is no longer relevant. I see you do not get that. Thats ok.

The others puts us behind a few states, and equal and or ahead of some. The question is how material is it. Is it really a big deal or just a big deal to the fringes. Saying it is 'way behind' is just silly. But as a Texan I am used to dealing with such inferiority complexes from people from other states who like to dig at anything they think they can. They usually find something trivial that they think they do better and then attempt to blow it WAY out of proportion, often distorting facts and ignoring logic in order to somehow make Texas look inferior. Its OK. Like I said we are used to it.

Reality is, in Texas, for $130 and 4 hours of time, you can get a license to carry, open or concealed, and renew that license 5 years later for I think $35. None of those things are prohibitive to anyone other than those living in a fantasy, or I guess people in Georgia. Down here we do not really have an issue with those things. If you want to say that makes us 'way behind' go right ahead. Around here(THR) you will probably find others that will provide you some reinforcement. But, as the other poster said, we really do not care.

Also, just to be clear to others who may be curious, Texas does not require any 'mandatory training' That is an internet myth. It is a 3 hour instructional class around CHL and the law. And the vast majority of Texans, because we care about respecting state law, find the class very informative and enjoy it.

But I know, it is fun to say Texas is way behind. So say it again. Feel better. Way behind.

 

[Warp]

The first is no longer relevant. I see you do not get that. Thats ok.

The others puts us behind a few states, and equal and or ahead of some. The question is how material is it. Is it really a big deal or just a big deal to the fringes. Saying it is 'way behind' is just silly. But as a Texan I am used to dealing with such inferiority complexes from people from other states who like to dig at anything they think they can. They usually find something trivial that they think they do better and then attempt to blow it WAY out of proportion, often distorting facts and ignoring logic in order to somehow make Texas look inferior. Its OK. Like I said we are used to it.

Reality is, in Texas, for $130 and 4 hours of time, you can get a license to carry, open or concealed, and renew that license 5 years later for I think $35. None of those things are prohibitive to anyone other than those living in a fantasy, or I guess people in Georgia. Down here we do not really have an issue with those things. If you want to say that makes us 'way behind' go right ahead. Around here you will probably find others that will provide you some reinforcement. But, as the other poster said, we really do not care.

Also, just to be clear to others who may be curious, Texas does not require any 'mandatory training' That is an internet myth. It is a 3 hour instructional class around CHL and the law. And the vast majority of Texans, because we care about respecting state law, find the class very informative and enjoy it.

But I know, it is fun to say Texas is way behind. So say it again. Feel better. Way behind.

Requiring hours of training to get a carry license is bad. Plain and simple.

Yes, government mandated training and hours of you time is prohibitive. That is surely a big reason why Texas has a woefully low % of the population licensed to carry.

And yes, that is mandatory training.

Your lame attempts at random personal insults are cute, though. Nowhere did I say Georgia had top tier carry laws, we don't (and neither does TX). Nice try though lol

 

[Sam1911]

Not sure what I expected, but ... about what I expected. Closed.