Open Carry

[rpenmanparker]

Another one of my dinner table civics lessons was summarized with the statement- The hardest part of living in a free society is the mandatory duty to allow others to do things you do not necessarily approve of.

Mandatory duty is a funny thing. You can fight against their right to do those things all the while allowing the practice.

 

[Sistema1927]

Freedom is dangerous and scary.

The alternative is even more dangerous and much scarier.

 

[FROGO207]

I on occasion will open carry around the local towns. Most often in the warmer months when concealing is a PITA. I will add that I am not worried about getting shot for my gun or such due to the local character where I live. I do it mostly for the conditioning of the non local population as they mostly come from the NY-MASS-RI-NJ type areas so that they can see that somebody "normal" can OC without causing trouble or hurting them. FWIW there are several of us that do this on no particular schedule. Yes there have been some funny 911 calls and the caller usually gets a lesson on making a false report much to their dismay. We are a Constitutional Carry state now.

 

[rust collector]

I learned at an early age "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". We are free to open carry where I live, and it is not uncommon to see folks carrying guns in and out of a gunsmith shop, dealer's or outfitter''s place. Not too long ago, most pickups had gun racks in the back window, too. Times change. Considering the feelings of others isn't a weakness, but an alertness to the need to get along with people who don't understand us or what we are about. We don't need to make any more enemies. We just need to understand the impact on others of our choices.

Are we accomplishing something good by open carrying, or are we just demonstrating a lack of care or awareness of others? Nobody says you can't do it, but don't be surprised if there are adverse consequences from such displays, both immediate and long term.

 

[paulsj]

I’m all for open carry, but I also believe there is a time and place for it. I’ve seen several people in stores that open carry, but have as much situational awareness as a hog staring at a wrist watch.
When you see the guy in Walmart dressed like Rick Grimes from The Walking Dead, you just got to shake your head.
And then there are those that look like they spent more money on their T-shirt then on the holster they have on their hip.
Like I said, I’m all for open carry, just not for careless carry.
What are your thoughts.

The only advice I can give is to wear clothing that blends in gun/holster. For example, black slacks/shirt black gun/holster. This is wonderful combo because it makes fat people look slimmer.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

black slacks/shirt black gun/holster. This is wonderful combo because it makes fat people look slimmer.

No it doesn't. Losing weight does and it makes them feel better too, trust me I know.

 

[kenboyles72]

Here's the thing, EVERYONE is going to have their own opinion on various topics and that's exactly what it is, an OPINION. They take their feelings and try to rationalize what's right or wrong. This goes for Dems, Republicans, gun owners and non-gun owners. I don't give a rats a$$ what people "feel", I do what I want, as long as it's within the law. If it's legal to OC, then let folk do it, stop using your feelings to infringe on someone else's right. Gun owners bitch about how Lib's use their feeling to infringe on our 2A, but these same folk do the same to our own. "I believe everyone should own firearms, but ________". You can fill in the blank. As once said, gun owners are our worst enemy, they can't stand together for the greater good.

 

[psyopspec]

Deleted

 

[wickedsprint]

As someone who would appear to be one of those Rick Grimes types, I’m somewhat offended (and I’m already over it because I understand).

I’m very used to being the book judged initially by my cover. When I started nursing school, I walked in the first day and got very strange looks. There was no dress code. And I am not comfortable dressing to impress. So I came to class in my camo pants, matching camo hoodie, camo hat, and boots. I also have a very “impressive” beard (so I’m told quite often). Most everyone thought I was in the wrong class (they told me so later). And then we took an intro test and I almost aced it. Next highest grade was just over 70%. Guess who everyone wanted to be friends with after that?
Who’s now a nurse that specializes in ACLS and airway management with patients on mechanical vents and tracheostomy’s?

I may not look like your ideal “gun toter” unless we were to cross paths in the woods during deer season. And if that’s how I’m judged, so be it. Theres an old adage of “You never get a second chance to make a first impression”. But I can tell you from experience, that’s not on the person making the impression. That’s on the person refusing to see past their own judgmental, elitist, perceptions.

I also believe demographics and where one comes from plays a very large role in this. The attitudes or perception of people from various parts of the country, about people where I live (a flyover state) is very evident. Many times we are viewed as uneducated, racist, and/or unsophisticated and should be avoided. But we will be the ones who stop to help when your car breaks down or you have an accident. We’ll be the ones, many times, who stand there and hold the door for 10 people to walk through. Not just the pretty woman in the tight dress that we want to get a closer look at. They don’t usually say “Thank you” anyways.

I have posted a few stories on here of some of the things I’ve done in the benefit of others. One was a story of helping a family from Chicago that had slid off the road after a snow storm. The man was shocked anyone would stop. He said people don’t even stop for dead bodies up there. Another was a time I paid for all of a random soldier and his kid’s sundries at a gas station without him even knowing. It wasn’t for accolades. It was just a way to say thank you for keeping my country safe. In California or New York, that “might” be a very uncommon occurrence. Here, it’s not.

I do OC. Because I literally cannot CC in a way that would allow quick access to my firearm should I need it to defend myself or others from the threat of serious physical harm due to my body structure. Appendix carry a FS 1911 and tell me how comfortable it is. Carrying in the small of my back doesn’t allow me to defend/retain my weapon should I be attacked from behind. Shoulder holsters don’t work with hoodies. Neither do chest rigs. Tactical thigh holsters, just.....no. And I’m not going to carry a micro pistol just so it’s concealed. I don’t shoot them well anyways. Never have. It’s the short sight radius. And I believe it’s way more important to be able to hit your target than to just point in it’s direction. I do have situational awareness. I’m always scanning people. Don’t sit with my back to the door at restaurants. I’ve taken Defensive Tactics and Police Pistol 1&2 My DT instructor was inducted into the martial arts hall of fame the year before Chuck Norris. And he kicked my ass. A lot. But I also learned a lot and still practice what I was taught. My P.P. Instructor was the same instructor that taught TPD officers. After the first day, I was assisting him with the class teaching other students. I’ve trained in MMA with Randy Couture’s camp. And I could go on and on.

Am I the exception? Maybe. Maybe not. But I can tell you this; You wouldn’t know a single one of those things if you just saw me at the “Walmarts” and dismissed me as an uneducated redneck with no training. It would be a very bad idea to make that asssumption about me. And it’s an unfair assumption to make about anyone else.

We need more people like you. Thank you for posting.

 

[psyopspec]

...stop using your feelings to infringe on someone else's right.

Who in this thread is advocating for curtailing the rights of others?

 

[George P]

Personally, OC outside of hunting/camping/fishing type activities is not my thing. I prefer to have the edge of surprise. Some folks act like total clowns (Walmart et al); others are in the running for the weekly Darwin Award. I am not against it; just not for me.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

My reasons for not open carrying have nothing to do with "element of surprise" or "scaring the sheeple" if you want to open carry by all means go right ahead. I support your right to make your own decision. I open carry at work because it's a requirement. My experience over the years has been that people take it as an opportunity to make stupid comments about it to me, like "Here comes the guard he's got a gun better watch out or he'll shoot you." I've also read comments on various forums in which the poster took great pleasure in addressing an opencarrier in public to either tell him what kind of an idiot he was or how grateful he was that the carrier was supporting the Second Amendment. I find both approaches to be incredibly annoying and if I can avoid that by not open carrying I will. I've also notice that there are people out there who take one look at your gun and see it as a challenge.Your gun does not intimidate them in the slightest. I've been standing in line at 7-11 and had a homeless guy walk through the door, take one look at me and get right in my face and tell me that "I'm security around here. Mind you I wasn't just standing there in cargo shorts open carrying a Glock 42, I was wearing body armor, carrying a taser, pepper spray and a gun and it didn't phase this guy one bit. And remember this was completely unprovoked. There are criminals out there for whom the fact that you are armed is not a deal-breaker just one more problem to overcome. It's always better to overestimate your enemy assume that he's smarter assume that he's better and better trained and find out you're wrong then do as soon as not and find out you're wrong. When I open carry(at work) I'm very conscious about who's around me, who's on my strong side and especially who's behind me. If at all possible I don't let anyone behind me. I don't often stop in convenience stores at work but if I do I find one that isn't busy so I'm not in the middle of a crowd. As I mentioned before I wear my gun in such a way that my arm naturally covers it

 

[psyopspec]

Can someone please share all these incidents of guns being removed and used on those who open carry?

Or how about sharing all these other incidents of the person ocing being the first shot?

Totally fair questions. I'll focus on the first, since I was one of the people who brought up retention in his initial post. I hope you won't think it unreasonable that I consider having a gun pointed at me to be a gun being used against me. I've therefore included some examples where people were shot, and others where they were assaulted with a deadly weapon in the form of having their own gun pointed at them.

Here's an Active Self Protection video from John Correia where a snatch happens very quickly. The dude who snatches the gun points it at owner. He fortunately decides not to shoot him.

One from Wisconsin last December. The snatchee was carrying multiple guns and it turned into a standoff.

While open carry isn't specified, the reporting around this example from Evanston Illinois says that the man who was shot with his own weapon was carrying it "loaded and uncased." I suppose that could mean concealed, or even in the hand, but to me the point is the same: retention training is a desirable thing to have if one is going to carry a gun, and especially if the gun will be OC'd.

Here's a very straightforward example from December in Mexico. It goes about like how one imagines these things might, with accompanying video.

While not every google result is an incident, and many are going to be overlapping, there are tens of millions you could review to find additional examples. This was from about 45 seconds of searching.

 

[drband]

My reasons for not open carrying have nothing to do with "element of surprise" or "scaring the sheeple" if you want to open carry by all means go right ahead. I support your right to make your own decision. I open carry at work because it's a requirement. My experience over the years has been that people take it as an opportunity to make stupid comments about it to me, like "Here comes the guard he's got a gun better watch out or he'll shoot you." I've also read comments on various forums in which the poster took great pleasure in addressing an opencarrier in public to either tell him what kind of an idiot he was or how grateful he was that the carrier was supporting the Second Amendment. I find both approaches to be incredibly annoying and if I can avoid that by not open carrying I will. I've also notice that there are people out there who take one look at your gun and see it as a challenge.Your gun does not intimidate them in the slightest. I've been standing in line at 7-11 and had a homeless guy walk through the door, take one look at me and get right in my face and tell me that "I'm security around here. Mind you I wasn't just standing there in cargo shorts open carrying a Glock 42, I was wearing body armor, carrying a taser, pepper spray and a gun and it didn't phase this guy one bit. And remember this was completely unprovoked. There are criminals out there for whom the fact that you are armed is not a deal-breaker just one more problem to overcome. It's always better to overestimate your enemy assume that he's smarter assume that he's better and better trained and find out you're wrong then do as soon as not and find out you're wrong. When I open carry(at work) I'm very conscious about who's around me, who's on my strong side and especially who's behind me. If at all possible I don't let anyone behind me. I don't often stop in convenience stores at work but if I do I find one that isn't busy so I'm not in the middle of a crowd. As I mentioned before I wear my gun in such a way that my arm naturally covers it

I appreciate that perspective.

I also like your signature line...
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[CoalTrain49]

 

[jbmillard]

...the real question is when you OC, do you do it with a round in the chamber? And do you carry an extra mag?

 

[BigBore44]

...the real question is when you OC, do you do it with a round in the chamber? And do you carry an extra mag?

Answer 1. Of course there’s a round in the chamber. Not every engagement starts with shots fired from a perp. You encounter an armed robber at a convenient store holding the place up and you’re in the next isle....You clear and rack your slide and you’re damn sure going to give up any element of surprise.

Answer 2. Sometimes. Depends where I’m at and what gun I’m carrying. My XD-45 is 13+1. My 10mm is a 7+1. Since it’s a single stack, it’s not a big deal to have an extra mag on me.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't care about people's "feelings" in regards to what they see when they're in PUBLIC. We all have to deal with things we dont like or agree with in public, but that are perfectly legal.

I think where I'm at in VA it's more of a convenience. You dont have to take a class, go the the courthouse, and then wait for a permit. A lot of folks OC and it doesn't cause any concern. They dont look like bums or slobs, just minimalist. Should they be allowed to do so, I say yes. Do they cause harm to the cause, I say no. Are they using themselves to their full potential, I say no, but it's a free country and I like it that way.


That being said I occasionally OC around my rural community but 95% of the time I take advantage of my CHP.

 

[entropy]

Just that this subject has been hashed over so much, I know exactly where it's going. This is not a new or rarely traveled subject, it rates right up there with "what gun for bears?" and generally has about as much creditable info to be gleaned as the numerous "dumb guy at Walmart" threads. Funny, how this is a combination of "Idiotic Open Carry"and "Dumb Guy at Walmart". Somehow, I really think we are better than this.......but, maybe not.

As a Walmart Associate, I see that combination of Open Carry and Dumb Guy at Walmart far too frequently. Often with the $8 Crosman holster for BB guns that we sell, and not surprisingly it's invariably a Hi-Point or a S&W SD9 version of some sort.

 

[psyopspec]

I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't care about people's "feelings" in regards to what they see when they're in PUBLIC. We all have to deal with things we dont like or agree with in public, but that are perfectly legal.

That reads a bit contradictory. Do you not care, or are you like most of us who may have passing thoughts about the things we see while also fully acknowledging the right of people to do as they choose within their rights?

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

That reads a bit contradictory. Do you not care, or are you like most of us who may have passing thoughts about the things we see while also fully acknowledging the right of people to do as they choose within their rights?

There are things most people would not like to see when they are out in public.

I have just grown not to care about the things I dislike because in all cases there's nothing we can do, as it should be.

We dont live in a utopia.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

As a Walmart Associate, I see that combination of Open Carry and Dumb Guy at Walmart far too frequently. Often with the $8 Crosman holster for BB guns that we sell, and not surprisingly it's invariably a Hi-Point or a S&W SD9 version of some sort.

At least they won't be out much when they get bitchslapped and get their gun taken

 

[ontarget]

I prefer not to be seperated from my sidearm (thus denying access to it), or being forced to mess with it putting it into or taking it out of a saddlebag in a parking lot every time I stop. I believe this would cause even more attention from onlookers. Under the seat isn't an option for me since that space is tight and occupied by a battery and oil tank. While I largely agree with Gunny about those who walk around with a safariland strapped to their thigh and eleventeen mags, the only scenario where this really affects me is Fl law on open carry and my chosen mode of transportation on a nice sunny day. If Fl allowed open carry, I would not have any concerns about exercising my constitutional rights while utilizing a specific class of legal transportation for which I am duly licensed to operate.

I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if someone else mentioned this.
Usually when riding my bike I will just appendix carry without a holster. The grip stays covered by my shirt and I never have to be separated from my pistol. In MI we can open carry but I prefer to keep it covered however I don't get all twitchy or worried about it if it shows or prints now and then.

 

[Drail]

A couple years ago here in Missouri we got concealed or open carry with no permit required. To my amazement I have seen no one carrying openly. Anywhere. I still keep mine covered up.

 

[Kaybee]

If you open carry should it be 9mm or 45acp?