An 'Open' Observation

[odysseus]

Modern thoughts...

I am not old, but growing up in a liberal area of Cali - I would take summers in AZ where my family there was pretty second ammendment oriented. The contrast was always large between these, I remember as a youth describing back to friends in Cali how even a neighbor of a relative I was staying with mowed his lawn packing. They thought it was weird and would translate it even to me being weird, but if you look back at how AZ still in areas was still very western and people still had what in my mind was the mindset to what America was built on (outside of those who combined it with racism). This I am sure has changed. The baby-boomers have really trashed this up, and I am a gen X'er.

Now even gun people are worried and unsettled when they see civilians packing. I myself wouldn't do it open in most situations as it brings unwanted scrutiny and harassment (as well as tactical defense) issues. The whole thing is that I feel I am living in the last age of civilian gun ownership even though we are constitutionally protected, it is being whittled away.

And why does not the NRA with all it's big money and people work to change public opinion in areas like Cali where it is weak? It's a public opinion war and in my mind in the liberal areas it is loosing. With the containment "one-world" second amendment bashing teachers in the powerful teachers unions teaching fear and liberal dogma to youth - what does anyone think here is going to happen in 50 years with gun laws and our ability to posses them in the whole country? You need a strong force of people and money like the NRA - but as far as I can see they don't see it as a priority and are being very isolationist on the issue.

 

[1911Tuner]

Bottom Line

Sad, but it's probably best to just put the gun under our shirts and go about our business...even in area where open carry is legal. Why stir up
the soccer moms and give'em somethin' to lobby against?

Cheers!

Tuner <------Rememberin' a better time in America

 

[M2 Carbine]

I know all the arguments again't open carry and I've used them myself but if Texas had open carry I can see wanting to carry a 45 open rather than a Kel Tec 380 in my pocket in our 100+ degree heat, where it's pretty hard to dress for concealed carry.

I'd very likely carry open to Wal Mart once or twice a week.

 

[Majic]

And why does not the NRA with all it's big money and people work to change public opinion in areas like Cali where it is weak?

You can't just throw money at a problem and hope it goes away. A much better and cheaper solution is for those who live in open carry areas to just carry openly. In time the population would get used to the sight and not pay it any mind. The problem today is too many people are abiding to what the soccer moms want. As long as we bow to their wishes they have already won.
Exactly why should we rearrange our wardrobe, put up with the discomforts and expense required for concealment just to provide them with a peace of mind? Since when did their pursuit of happiness supersede ours.

 

[bogie]

Actually not sure myself about the status of "open carry = brandishing," but if you wanna try it in St. Louis City or County, you'd better be prepared to have one of the local cops try to shove a glock through your eardrum...

FWIW, I also have concerns about the availability of police uniforms, hats, etc., via mail order, etc... Any bozo can dress up and parade around... Face it - Many of us have met "navy seels," and other similar types. They make me nervous.

 

[odysseus]

You can't just throw money at a problem and hope it goes away.

While I understand and agree in the main premise of that, I beg to differ in this case. Ask anyone who has to run for office or sell an idea to the public. It takes capital to utilize the methods in which the large populace absorbs content. Radio, print, TV ads, and websites especially cost money. Grass roots helps locally and is required - but you need to campaign to the people to be heard. At this point the unintiated are better armed to describe and talk why we shouldn't have arms than why we should.

I remember those "I'm the NRA" ads, and while those are good to a degree, they failed to really encapsulate the issues and understanding that are needed to fight the false fears and misguided prejudices the gun grabbing types believe and are "educating" to their own.

Where then is the money going?

 

[Treylis]

I have often been asked why I carry a Leatherman tool on my belt each and every day. The funny thing is I am only asked this after I have started using it. (usually to fix/adjust something that belongs to someone else.) I just smile and say, "I carry it because you never know when you might need a screwdriver... like right now."

I've had the exact same thing happen, and it always causes a sharp stabbing pain right behind the eyes--for heaven's sake, why on earth would you ask me a question like that WHILE I'M USING IT?

 

[mrstang01]

And I'll weigh in on this with my standard answer. [Rant mode] We need to quit pacifying the sheep, let them get scared, let them call the cops if they need to. Handle it profesionally if the cops show up, and explain to them that it is perfectly legal to open carry. If the cops get enough nuisance calls, they can explain to the sheep.

We get nothing when we compromise with the antis. We only lose our rights. Look at this thread, we have gun owners saying, "Ah shucks, let's just conceal". We give up our rights by not exercising them, and then whine about it.

This is America after all.
[/Rant mode]

 

[sendec]

No one (to the best of my knowledge) has wandered into a Luby's or a McDonald's or a school with a Leatherman tool and started randomly fixing things. I operate under the assumption that people in general are armed, at least discreetly. However, if I am seated in my booth enjoying a tasty bun o'grease and a person walks in dressed like a Straight Edger, openly carrying a firearm, should I applaud or alert?

If I am out running fenceline, open carry makes perfect sense. If I am at B&N enjoying a latte' and Baudelaire I am not so sure.

 

[Zach S]

Face it - Many of us have met "navy seels," and other similar types. They make me nervous.

"There I was, knee-deep in brass..."

Sorry, couldnt resist...

 

[munk]

I don't understand all of the original post for this thread. The writer states he was told any one with a concealed weapons permit could carry openly unless it were a bar or other prohibited place. So could anyone in Montana- permit or not.

I don't understand why the Police were called.

I don't understand how the writer decided the young man was 'high and tight'


munk

 

[Don't Tread]

"High and Tight"- haircut, typical of the Military and LEO

 

[munk]

Gotcha. Still wonder about being told concealed carry permitees could carry openly- when everyone in the State not prohibited by law can too.


There's a couple interesting things about Montana- it's coat country- so it is not considered 'concealed' if you got cold and buttoned your coat. Not quite sure if that's just for the woods or the City too.
Also thought you could keep a loaded gun in the glove box and not have it considered concealed.

Still don't know why poster called police.



munk

 

[SemperFi83]

Ain't America beautiful?

 

[munk]

She is beautiful, and would only be made more so if more weapons were carried openly.



munk

 

[CB900F]

Munk;

I didn't call the police, I called the sheriff's dept. No, it's not the same thing. It is the Sheriff's dept. that issues the CCW permits in Montana. I did not, as you seem to think, call to report the person. I called, on a later day, to get a clarification on the situation from the horses mouth, as it were.

I found out that the City of Great Falls does not have a ordinance against open carry. When I first got my permit here, under a different Sheriff, I was led to believe that such an ordinance did exist. Therefore, when I saw the open carry, I was under the impression that it quite possibly was illegal. Under those circumstances, it was reasonable to assume that an LEO/carrier confrontation might happen while I was there.

900F

 

[Generic]

We need a 'National Open Carry Day'.

Everywhere it is legal those of us who normally carry concealed go open. It'd be fun. Give you a chance to buy a new holster. Hallmark could make up some greeting cards for it.

 

[Don't Tread]

We need to get open Carry here in Florida, and then push for Vermont type Gun Laws, considering we already have reciprocity it might be possible

 

[munk]

Sounds reasonable, 900, sorry to misunderstand.

ARe you new to Montana and the Western Rockies states?

I've only been in Montana for 6 years, though I've got several in other western states. One of the first thing refugees from the City do in Wyoming and Idaho and Montana is apply for a concealed carry permit.

Montana's laws are so reasonable, I never found the need to do so.



munk

 

[CB900F]

Munk;

No, lifelong northern rockies resident. Most of it in Wyoming though.

900F

 

[munk]

900;
- I lived 2 and a half years outside Big Horn.

I once called the BATF in Billings to clear up a question I had about firearms. I'd just spent about an hour reading the regulations. The Office told me to hold, while they located the officer most knowledgable about firearms. He and I talked, and I became aware I knew more about the regs than he did. Well, the question was about the foolish point system with so called 'assault' weapons. I don't remember it, but that overall section is confusing. I hear different interpretations all the time.

I've heard different interpretations of various local, State, and Fed firearms regulations in all the different States I've lived in. I remember in Calif a Forest Ranger warned me I could not carry a sidearm in the local wilderness area. His boss finally called me personally to confirm what I already knew- that I could.

So someone here in Montana told me a woman could carry in her purse and it is not considered concealed, a gun in the glove box is not concealed, and a gun under the coat out of doors not concealed. I'd have to personally verify all of this to believe it 100%

So let me say I'm sorry again if I jumped to conclusions about what you were doing. I should have known better. This is a confusing world- and why not, with men writing the rules?


munk

 

[Nickotym]

Good posting by Majiic

I have never understood those who carry concealed that are surprised when they see someone carrying open. They are doing no more than you are, excersing their right, but yet you have to carefully watch them.

We should all think this way. Remember, we should base opinions about people by what they do not just what they look like.

Edited to correct spelling.

 

[ScottsGT]

Carrying open in a holster, no problem

Carrying open tucked behind a waistband, AKA "Mexican carry", my alarms would go off. If not because of the "gangbanger" look, but the unsafe handling of firearms.

I have a photo of a guy at a Soccer game, yes I was a "Soccer Dad" but not with the attitude that goes with it, with a small auto in his rear pocket footprinting like you wouldn't believe. New camera, 300mm lens and standing behind him about 30 ft. Had to have that photo!
This was right after SC passed the CWP law, but it was not in effect yet. He did have a really big dog on a leash. All I could think of was that he carried it incase the leash broke and the dog went after a kid. With a dog that big, no one in their right mind, or not in their right mind, is going after a guy with that animal tied to him.