Busyhands94
Member
I am not talking about violent criminals, I'm talking about nonviolent ones.
Opinion: Who Should be Prohibited for Life?
- Thread starter ArtP
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CapnMac
Member
The mans speaks truth here. There is further truth that too many things are made felonies so that legislators can say that they "did something."
Take a canoe trip on the Rio Grande in New Mexico. Stop and cut a cane from the south bank. Now drift across the NM-Texas border; you'd best not drift north of the centerline of the river unless you can prove that cane pole has no trace of sugar in it (or is no longer than 25mm). It's a felony to bring sugar cane across the US Border unless it's a "souvenir" which is defined as being "less than 1" in length (they use a 25mm gauge to cut chunks for the tourists so they are 0.4mm "less").
Ever drive with a live plant across a State border? Shoot, use Search for threads on "Can I ship a [firearm] to [place]?"
We've made nearly everything a crime. Ask a lawyer, virtually every American has committed a felony in their life. We need to look at what we call crimes before we start in with draconian dicta. And, if making things illegal is all that is required, why is there still speeding, or running red lights? We cannot have it both ways.
Which is infinitely more true for us in the gun-owning community. Right or wrong; we bear an onus, a burden, to obey every law there is, so that we remain "law-abiding gun owners." Should we have to? I'm pretty sure what Madison, Coxe, Jefferson would say. I'd be frightened of what John Adams would say about the state of our laws.
mljdeckard
Member
I wouldn't go along with the statement; "Virtually every American has committed a felony", but I could certainly get behind the idea of refocusing the definition and statistics on state law rather than federal.
jahwarrior
Member
No one should be prohibited. If you can be trusted to move freely in public, then you hsould be trusted with a gun. Even former convicts have the right to self defense.
allaroundhunter
Member
Even the man who is out serving probation for attempted murder with a firearm?
mljdeckard
Member
Just because a person has been paroled doesn't mean in any way that they should be trusted to move freely in public.
JRH6856
Member
There are a lot of people released from prison either early release for whatever reason or after completing their sentence who are still as dangerous to society as the day they went in. These people have demonstrated their violent natures and can't really be trusted to control them. They can't be trusted with a gun. So, if there are no weapons restrictions once they are released, the only option is to not release them. Prisons are already overcrowded, That is why many convicts become ex convicts. It cost money to build more prisons. Cheaper to prohibit posession.
The irony of prohibition is those who can be trusted with guns will obey the law and won't have any. Those who can't be trusted are the ones most likely to break the law and acquire them.
The irony of prohibition is those who can be trusted with guns will obey the law and won't have any. Those who can't be trusted are the ones most likely to break the law and acquire them.
the_hustleman
Member
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I see where you're going but violent offenders should never be allowed to pick up a gun legally.
I think non violent felons should have a2 year probationary period after their release and afterwards they should be allowed to vote, own and carry (you know, keep AND bare arms! "
*swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*
Arkansas Paul
Member
:banghead:
allaroundhunter
Member
Okay, then how about the person who has served his time for attempted murder with a firearm and has been released?
Again, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I am not giving a violent offender a second chance to make a fool of me. There are no second chances when it comes to life, once you lose it, you can't get it back, and putting a weapon into the hands of someone who has already proven to be violent enough to serve jail time is a stupid idea in and of itself. Yes, all life is valuable, but as it should be, the lives of those who have proven to be trustworthy is valued more than those who have proven otherwise.
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Arkansas Paul
Member
And rights can be revoked after due process.
MrDig
Member
I know of a few Felons who easily deserve to have their rights restored. Most of them committed felonies before age 20, and have been off paper for over 25 years without so much as a parking ticket since. The last got tagged with possession of a "Controlled Substance" (Marijuana) three times and has never been violent and also is off paper for over 10 years.
All have committed themselves to helping others through the 12 steps to learn and move beyond the lives they used to lead and are real valued citizens in my opinion.
To simply state "once a felon always a felon" is an injustice to too many like my friends who truly have rehabilitated.
I myself once did the same things many of these people did, the only difference was I got sober before I got caught. I am clean and sober over 23 years now do you want to deny me my rights just because I admitted I am reformed?
This is NOT a black and white question, too many people fall into the grey areas.
All have committed themselves to helping others through the 12 steps to learn and move beyond the lives they used to lead and are real valued citizens in my opinion.
To simply state "once a felon always a felon" is an injustice to too many like my friends who truly have rehabilitated.
I myself once did the same things many of these people did, the only difference was I got sober before I got caught. I am clean and sober over 23 years now do you want to deny me my rights just because I admitted I am reformed?
This is NOT a black and white question, too many people fall into the grey areas.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Unfortunately there's a LOT of "hey, I'm not a felon so who cares what happens to them" attitude involved here.
JRH6856
Member
There but for the grace of government go all of us. (at least I think that is the point you have been trying to make).
allaroundhunter
Member
I'm not a felon, but I have a relative who has hit the 3 strike DWI rule. This relative was able to get a driver's license again (after serving jail time and probation), which I am against even though he/she has made TREMENDOUS progress; volunteers at homeless shelters, has a very steady job, and is a very transformed person...I would have rather the driver's license been held off for another 5 or so years. A vehicle can be just as deadly as a firearm...
Arkansas Paul
Member
Much more in fact. Statistics don't lie.
It hasn't been said yet, but there are ways to get your rights restored, even if convicted of a felony. I personally know someone who was arrested and found guilty for manufactoring with intent to distribute. 3 years later, he has his CCW. I'm not sure the exact details that went into him getting his record expunged, but he did it. I don't have a problem with it really because he was never convicted of anything violent. That would change everything in my opinion.
mljdeckard
Member
I'm not sure exactly what you are asking me, about the guy who did time for attempted homicide and was released. Are you asking me if they are fully rehabilitated and ready for the streets? Of course it would depend on the individual case, but probably not.
Prison does not turn bad people into good people. Prison (pretty much all of the time) turns bad people into worse people. They associate with other criminals, justify and rationalize their actions, and learn how the system works.
Prison does not turn bad people into good people. Prison (pretty much all of the time) turns bad people into worse people. They associate with other criminals, justify and rationalize their actions, and learn how the system works.
mingansr
Member
just happened upon this thread. very interesting.
here's a situation. for anonymity's sake i'll call him a good friend. ok? he used to go deer hunting without problems. good guy, gentle as a lamb. not a fighter, right? well, back in his youthful days, he was convicted of 'dealing' ONE ounce of pot. a felony at that time. and when WI started getting an online system to check for things when one applied for a deer hunting license he found out he's a bad guy all of a sudden. a dear hunting bud of mine, and he's screwed. only way is to get a governor's pardon. well, he ain't got much money. that'd cost like hell.
today, possession of up to one ounce of hootchi is a misdemeanor. but he's being judged by a law in the past. go figure. anybody out here a bud with our governor Walker? sheesh.
if he was a true violent felon, i'd say, what are ya gonna do? but he's the friendliest, nicest guy you could ever meet. and what hurts so deeply is that his sons can and do hunt. he can't even have the quality time of being with his kids on the deer camp hunt (and you know how good and fulfilling that is when you can be with your sons/daughters in this hallowed tradition- aren't we so very lucky we can do such things in our country?) cuz of this BS.
anyway, had to get it off my chest, highroaders!
here's a situation. for anonymity's sake i'll call him a good friend. ok? he used to go deer hunting without problems. good guy, gentle as a lamb. not a fighter, right? well, back in his youthful days, he was convicted of 'dealing' ONE ounce of pot. a felony at that time. and when WI started getting an online system to check for things when one applied for a deer hunting license he found out he's a bad guy all of a sudden. a dear hunting bud of mine, and he's screwed. only way is to get a governor's pardon. well, he ain't got much money. that'd cost like hell.
today, possession of up to one ounce of hootchi is a misdemeanor. but he's being judged by a law in the past. go figure. anybody out here a bud with our governor Walker? sheesh.
if he was a true violent felon, i'd say, what are ya gonna do? but he's the friendliest, nicest guy you could ever meet. and what hurts so deeply is that his sons can and do hunt. he can't even have the quality time of being with his kids on the deer camp hunt (and you know how good and fulfilling that is when you can be with your sons/daughters in this hallowed tradition- aren't we so very lucky we can do such things in our country?) cuz of this BS.
anyway, had to get it off my chest, highroaders!
mljdeckard
Member
Does WI not have a reasonable path for expungement?
I think that conviction under a law which has since been relaxed is a good reason to ask for a pardon or expungement. I think that there should be a way for your guy to get his rights back.
But again, actions have consequences. If one of my boys was messing around with pot, I wouldn't tell him, "Hey, do what you want. It's no big deal, and everyone will forget about it in a few years anyway." NO I would tell him that criminal actions have consequences that can affect him for a lifetime.
I think that conviction under a law which has since been relaxed is a good reason to ask for a pardon or expungement. I think that there should be a way for your guy to get his rights back.
But again, actions have consequences. If one of my boys was messing around with pot, I wouldn't tell him, "Hey, do what you want. It's no big deal, and everyone will forget about it in a few years anyway." NO I would tell him that criminal actions have consequences that can affect him for a lifetime.
jahwarrior
Member
How's that War On Drugs working out?
JRH6856
Member
The private prison operators are winning.
Here is where the utopians keep going round and round. If he is still that dangerous do you HONESTLY think any law is going to STOP him from getting or possessing a weapon??? The answer is NO. The only thing it will do is disarm the guy who intends to follow the law. Why do you find it necessary to restrict the Constitutional rights of that person? I don't care if you hand out guns as the guy walks out of the prison. The rate of guys committing crimes with them would be the same. The only difference is they would probably do it right away instead of a few days later when they get their gun illegally.
If gun prohibitions worked no one would be in prison for illegally possessing one. No one is in prison for that right?
bikemutt
Member
So here is a twist that happened 4 doors down in my 'hood on Saturday. I come home to a Medic 1 rig parked in front of my house, lights flashing and city cops with guns drawn covering a house (not mine, I've been good).
I learned today my neighbor who I've never met, an Iraq war vet, threatened to end his life. His wife called the cops who talked him off the ledge. They sent him off for a mental eval, and removed all his guns from the home, for safe keeping of course.
No one knows how this will all play out but do we as a society have a responsibility going forward to do as much as is humanly possible to keep this guy from owning guns again? From a suicide standpoint he doesn't need to use a gun, we've got plenty of tall bridges around here. On the other hand, could he be a candidate for the big snap?
I learned today my neighbor who I've never met, an Iraq war vet, threatened to end his life. His wife called the cops who talked him off the ledge. They sent him off for a mental eval, and removed all his guns from the home, for safe keeping of course.
No one knows how this will all play out but do we as a society have a responsibility going forward to do as much as is humanly possible to keep this guy from owning guns again? From a suicide standpoint he doesn't need to use a gun, we've got plenty of tall bridges around here. On the other hand, could he be a candidate for the big snap?
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
"If I can keep a legal gun out of ______'s hands, I can stop him from commiting the crimes he might do in the future"
It's a BS argument when the antis say it. And it's a BS argument now.
It's a BS argument when the antis say it. And it's a BS argument now.
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