Prohibited from purchasing handgun?

[jayc28]

Ok, this one should be interesting. Over thirteen years ago, I was young and stupid and got into some trouble with the law. I pled guilty to theft by deception in the third degree in New Jersey. I was given probation which was completed in 1999. Well, now I have a dilemma because I'm a little unsure of what to put on the 4473 form. I now live in Florida.

The Exception 1 to Important Notice 6 on the form 4473 states:

A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is NOT prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer "no" to 12 C. or 12i, as applicable.

Now, my civil rights in New Jersey were restored once my probation was finished. As for part that says, "the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms.", that's where it gets sticky.

It says in this NRA summary here:

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NJSL.pdf

No Permit to Purchase or FID will be issued to any:

Person who has been convicted of a crime.

But further down it states:

No person may possess, control, own, or purchase any firearm if he has:

Been convicted of aggravated assault, arson, burglary, escape, extortion, homicide, kidnapping, robbery, sexual assault; bias intimidation or endangering the welfare of a child; or any weapons offense; or any domestic violence offense including crime such as harassment, stalking or criminal restraint.

I obviously don't fit that category, so while I may not be able to obtain "permit to purchase" in New Jersey, it doesn't appear that I am prohibited from owning a firearm. Question is, how does that tie into Florida and would I be able to answer NO to question 12c based upon this?

I plan on asking an attorney before I just go ahead and fill out paperwork, but I was hoping somebody here might have some info or advice.

 

[RancidSumo]

Well was your crime a felony?

 

[jayc28]

I thought I already established that. Yes, a third degree crime in NJ is considered a felony. The distinction seems to be between a "permit to purchase" and possession. Since I live in FL, I have no need to obtain a "permit to purchase", but I have to wonder if I am still unable to even possess a firearm in the state of NJ.

 

[Car Knocker]

Consultation with an attorney conversant with both federal and state firearms laws would be indicated.

 

[jayc28]

Of course, what I'm looking at now appears to be a situation where even if I get the state stuff cleared up, I'll actually have to obtain a CCW permit in Florida to bypass the NICS check which will still get me a denial. Talk about stupid.

 

[Guitargod1985]

In Flordia, a concealed weapon/firearm license does not exempt you from a NICS check anymore.

 

[markk]

I'll actually have to obtain a CCW permit in Florida to bypass the NICS check

A Florida CWP does not bypass the NICS...

 

[yhtomit]

jayc28:

Sorry for your troubles -- the law has put you in an odd spot, and I hope your attorney provides some clarity.

Please update this thread with more information when you get it; it sounds like you're the type of person to whom gun ownership rights should be restored anyhow. There are attorneys who are familiar with rights restoration; I know one of the interviews at JPFO is about that. Hmm, now I shall look for it ...

Here you go; it's not *exactly* about the question you're asking, but it's related enough you may want to seek out the book:

Brady Denials: When the Government Says You Can't Buy a Gun, What Can You Do? - An interview with attorney & author Cindy Hill
http://jpfo.org/media-sound/tta050829.mp3 <-- interview itself
http://jpfo.org/tta/tta050829.htm <-- interview notes

timothy

 

[markk]

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/ - Jon H. Gutmacher quite literally "wrote the book" on Florida Firearms Laws.

 

[mekender]

best bet is to get a firearms attorney involved and push for expungment at the state level... either that, or you can take your chances and see what comes up... i know you can call the FBI and ask to get a copy of your NCIS record and see what comes up...

 

[gunshow]

You said your civil rights were restored, you're in florida, have you tried to make a purchase? A lawyer can say whatever but the only way you're going to get an answer is to attempt a purchase.

 

[jayc28]

Thanks to everybody for the replies.

I did have somebody I know get in touch with a New Jersey attorney and she said that based upon what she read, I could go ahead and answer "No" on the form.

I also contacted Louis Nappen, NRA firearms instructor, NJ attorney and rights restoration specialist. He's sending me a packet to see if I am eligible to get the record expunged and get my rights restored.

Thanks for the clarification on the CCW and NICS.

I guess what bothers me most is that (and trust me, I don't make any excuses for what I did. I was stupid and greedy and because me and one other guy thought our boss was a crook - he was - that we could print off a few bogus checks and nobody would notice - ha!) since that conviction, I haven't even gotten so much as a parking ticket. Talk about being set straight. Since that time, I've given my life over to God, I've been married since 1995, have two wonderful children, just bought a house last year for the first time, and I'm the IT Director at my company where I have worked for the last ten years. The crime I committed was not violent in any way. I guess I always figured that it was violent crimes that prohibited people from owning firearms. Like I said, I made my bed, so now I have to lie in it but still....

Anyway, I'll you everybody updated in case they're faced with a similar situation or knows somebody that is.

I had forgotten too that a guy that I attend church with is a FFL dealer and I am going to ask him to run the NICS check and see what happpens.

 

[yhtomit]

jayc28:

If anyone outside of prison should have their right to own firearms terminated, it seems like a violent crime (or perhaps a credible thread) should be the only reason to impose that kind of restriction, because that makes sense if the purpose is to protect the people around them. If instead the purpose is a perpetual, slow-burn punishment for life ... well, you see how that goes.

The more I think about it, the more I think that prison should be reserved for people who are being punished with a curtailment of rights, and curtailment of rights should be reserved for prison. (Or even add in Parole, too.)

I feel more and more hardline about this with each year that goes by -- not because I am a big fan of once-convicted, now-released rapists being allowed to own guns, but because I don't like the idea of tiered citizenship, where some people have Rights-plus, and others have Rights-minus, on a sliding scale determined by a committee of wise men.

timothy