Opinions on two .44 mag short barrel models

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

I was looking for some informed perspective on two different revolvers.
I've been planning on buying a short barreled .44mag for some time. In part for a bit of range excitement, in part for a woods/backpack gun and to have the option of keeping it in my flight bag when setting out somewhere less than urban.
I'm a S&W guy so want to keep it in family and already own a 627 PC short barreled (2 5/8") N-Frame.
I'm looking at the 629 PC 2 5/8" barrel and an (older) Trail Boss which has a 3" barrel and comes magna ported from the factory. BTW, I like the idea of magna porting for such a short beast gun but I've not been able to find out how that affects ballistic performance. Everything I read says bullet speeds are affected 'not very much', or 'hardly at all if at all', but I've never seen any numbers. Does anyone actually have the data?
Any opinions here? Has anyone fired one or both?
Thx,
B

 

[righteoushoot]

From their website: "A number of chronograph tests have been conducted over the years. It has been proven, time and again, that Mag-na-porting does not influence velocities to any meaningful extent."

I know that is not hard data, but they could probably answer your questions.

http://www.magnaport.com/hgun.html

I have the Carry Comp PC version. It is sweet!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've never seen any data that reflects more than a few feet per second of velocity loss where porting is involved.

 

[tipoc]

You will likely get more difference in velocity from one load to another than from Magna-porting.

In a short barreled gun the bullet is out of the barrel by the time the gases pushing the bullet reach the vent. The gasses in front of the bullet will not effect velocity to any meaningful way and will leave the barrel and port before the bullet reaches the muzzle.

Where the ports are located makes a difference. Magna-Port places them near the muzzle of the barrel.

So I think when Magna-Port says that velocity is not effected...

It should be noted that Mag-na-porting a firearm:

does NOT reduce velocity
does NOT affect inherent accuracy
does NOT raise noise level

http://www.magnaport.com/company.html

they are likely correct.

Studies however have been conducted on recoil reduction and velocity by H.P. White Labs and at Cornell University...

Mag-na-port has been tested many times since its initial introduction. H.P. White Laboratories performed tests on rifles equipped with and without Mag-na-port to determine the effect on free recoil and velocity. Findings in the laboratory-conducted test had a 20.8% reduction in free recoil for the rifle equipped with Mag-na-port. These same tests noted velocity averages less than four-tenths of 1 percent with the Mag-na-ported rifle, considered statistically insignificant.

In tests at Cornell University using a series of compression sensors rigged to a modified Ransom Rest mounted on a spring-loaded sliding track connected to an oscilloscope, a before and after analysis of the effect of Mag-na-porting on a series of different calibre revolvers was conducted. These tests were on revolvers ranging from .38 Special to .44 Magnum, in barrel lengths from 2 to 8-3/8 inches and frame sizes from small to heavy. Recoil reduction ran from a low of 11% on the .38 to a high of 47% on the 44 magnum. The conclusions drawn from the tests confirmed that Mag-na-port does not decrease bullet velocity or increase muzzle blast. These same tests also confirmed that Mag-na-port does reduce the intensity of apparent recoil.

The velocity impact from porting is affected by port placement with regard to muzzle and chamber. The trapezoid ports placed near the end of the barrel allow maximum bore travel for the bullet to receive full pressure prior to reaching the ports and exiting the barrel. Mag-na-port in and of itself has no effect on the accuracy and does not alter the internal bore configuration or in any way distorts the bore.

I bolded the relevant sections above. http://static.statusguns.com/agents_ProPort.htm

If it did reduce velocity in any consistent or significant way folks would have been all over that long ago. A number of people do not care for porting in a defensive piece and a reduction in velocity would have been fuel for that argument.

Here's a link to a discussion of just that.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/105430-how-does-ported-barrel-affect-energy-velocity.html

I did not find I was hit by hot gas or blinded by the flash.

tipoc

 

[Old judge creek]

My all time favorite revolver is - and at 72 years old and having spent as many of those years as possible in the great outdoors and packing a shooter on my hip - my S&W 629 Trail Boss. If any "one" sixgun could be referred to as all purpose, my thoughts are the this could well be the one.

YMMV.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

You will likely get more difference in velocity from one load to another than from Magna-porting.

In a short barreled gun the bullet is out of the barrel by the time the gases pushing the bullet reach the vent. The gasses in front of the bullet will not effect velocity to any meaningful way and will leave the barrel and port before the bullet reaches the muzzle.

Where the ports are located makes a difference. Magna-Port places them near the muzzle of the barrel.

So I think when Magna-Port says that velocity is not effected...



http://www.magnaport.com/company.html

they are likely correct.

Studies however have been conducted on recoil reduction and velocity by H.P. White Labs and at Cornell University...



I bolded the relevant sections above. http://static.statusguns.com/agents_ProPort.htm

If it did reduce velocity in any consistent or significant way folks would have been all over that long ago. A number of people do not care for porting in a defensive piece and a reduction in velocity would have been fuel for that argument.

Here's a link to a discussion of just that.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/105430-how-does-ported-barrel-affect-energy-velocity.html

I did not find I was hit by hot gas or blinded by the flash.

tipoc

This is excellent. Thank you very much. I had not come across the Cornell study. I had examined the Magna-Port site where they stated that the loss of bullet energy was inconsequential but they had no numbers and have some likely bias.
I have to admit that it borders on the unbelievable that enough gas can be ejected from the ports to diminish vertical recoil by 20% without affecting bullet speed but with the study data and the repeated testimonials I have to accept it.
Now a variant question is what people would think about buying the 8-shot short barreled N-frame and sending it out to be Magna-Ported versus buying a Trail Boss? Any opinions?
And thanks everyone (including tipoc) for the information.
B

 

[GBExpat]

I purchased a 3" RD 629-1 in 1988 and still enjoy shooting it.

I shot quite a bit of generic 240gr JSP American Eagle ammo (@ ~$11-$12/50) thru it in the first decade that I had it. I especially enjoyed shooting old golf balls from ~7-10yds and watching them "disappear" ... and then drop from the sky 15 seconds later.

For walkabout it is an excellent companion to my .44cal Marlin 1894.

 

[ricebasher302]

I own the 629 PC you speak of. I shoot it occasionally with the wood grips, but DA 6-shot strings are definitely uncomfortable. While the porting (such as on the 629 comp carry model) would reduce muzzle flip, I doubt it would significantly reduce the overall whack it will deliver to your palm, but I could be wrong. I have a Pachmayr compact grip that makes a world of difference and still looks proportionate to barrel length. I shoot it more with this grip installed. I have not chrono'd any loads, but the effects of factory 240 gr. loads on various hard and soft targets place it well into the magnum performance class. Make no mistake, it delivers much more power than longer barreled 45 Colts, 45 ACP, etc.

 

[Bongo Boy]

My opinion regarding Magnaporting is that it affects nothing hardly at all. I actually don't believe porting does anything except lighten your wallet. If it DIDN'T lighten your wallet, folks would probably agree it doesn't do jack. It's complete crap as far as I'm concerned. 100% pure snake oil, or as Scientific American would say, "confirmed nonsense". I've been around the block a few times, and I've seen nothing in the way of actual evidence that it does anything. What I've read is folks who swear it provides some benefit--but no evidence whatsoever. Complete Hope in the darkness of despair.

Now, there's the case of my new-to-me 629 that was magna ported as part of the original factory product (Classic Hunter II Lew Horton). This is a complete joke. The ports had to be put it at about 30 degrees from horizontal, so already you know any speculative impact they might have is reduced by 50% immediately (as far as holding the muzzle down). I had my Kahr K40 magnaported, and I absolutely love how it looks, and so does everyone else. Does it do anything? You gotta be kidding me...it doesn't do anything at all except make the gun louder, and even that's a 'maybe'.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

I own the 629 PC you speak of. I shoot it occasionally with the wood grips, but DA 6-shot strings are definitely uncomfortable. While the porting (such as on the 629 comp carry model) would reduce muzzle flip, I doubt it would significantly reduce the overall whack it will deliver to your palm, but I could be wrong. I have a Pachmayr compact grip that makes a world of difference and still looks proportionate to barrel length. I shoot it more with this grip installed. I have not chrono'd any loads, but the effects of factory 240 gr. loads on various hard and soft targets place it well into the magnum performance class. Make no mistake, it delivers much more power than longer barreled 45 Colts, 45 ACP, etc.

So I might sound like I'm all over the map here (but I don't really think so). Given the feedback on the recoil pressure (which has been a concern) and given the likely use cases that I've considered, I've also thought about a 5" barrel S&W .460 XVR. It may sound nutty but it likely offers some range fun, has a choice of three different rounds, would likely fit in the flight bag and has a compensator.
Just by way of reference, I own a .44mag S&W V-Comp. It's the 4" model with a removable compensator. When I shoot it with mag rounds it makes me wonder why people complain about recoil. But I'm very sure it's the compensator. It's pretty amazing. I don't know that I'd want to shoot mag rounds all day but there is absolutely no discomfort with recoil.
So the .460 is like that, only bigger. I just don't know if the X-Frame is just too ridiculous looking. Seriously they look like they are a prop from the Flintstones. And I'm not sure if I could get my hand around it.
B

 

[farm23]

I carry 3" with magna ported and round grip 629. My impression is the magna port reduce s muzzle flip but the velocity is not reduced. The one thing I wish were different it the front sight blackens after shooting. With the porting at the front I have learned to deal with the front sight and would put it on my Charter Arms when/if I get one.

 

[Cee Zee]

I love my 629 but it's not a short barrel model. If it was I'd likely still love it. It's crazy accurate. Those news critters going on about how it much be some "trained" shooter to hit 2 people at 125 yards recently really don't know much about a good shooting revolver. I can consistently hit a man size target at 175 yards. Actually I can hit a smaller target than that but that would be the limit for a good center mass shot. I'd say I could hit a basketball 9 out of 10 times at 175 yards with my 629. But like I said mine is not a short barrel model. It has the 8 3/8" barrel in fact. It's not a carry piece for me. It's a bear buster.

BTW I have ZERO desire to be shooting at cops or anyone else from any distance. I just wanted to make sure that was understood.

The 629 is a super shooter but I wouldn't try shooting those 300 gr. +P rounds with it. It will rattle the timing out of whack from what I hear about them. And +P+ is completely out of the question.

 

[ricebasher302]

So I might sound like I'm all over the map here (but I don't really think so). Given the feedback on the recoil pressure (which has been a concern) and given the likely use cases that I've considered, I've also thought about a 5" barrel S&W .460 XVR. It may sound nutty but it likely offers some range fun, has a choice of three different rounds, would likely fit in the flight bag and has a compensator.
Just by way of reference, I own a .44mag S&W V-Comp. It's the 4" model with a removable compensator. When I shoot it with mag rounds it makes me wonder why people complain about recoil. But I'm very sure it's the compensator. It's pretty amazing. I don't know that I'd want to shoot mag rounds all day but there is absolutely no discomfort with recoil.
So the .460 is like that, only bigger. I just don't know if the X-Frame is just too ridiculous looking. Seriously they look like they are a prop from the Flintstones. And I'm not sure if I could get my hand around it.

I've shot short barreled X-frames in .500 in several bullet weights and found them to be relatively manageable with those big Hogue grips they put on them. My 629 PC with the factory wood stocks is more uncomfortable to shoot, but with the Pachmayr grip, it's slightly more comfortable to fire than the short barreled X-frames.

Now, I do occasionally load some .44 Spl in it and CC it in an OWB leather pancake holster. You definitely don't do that with an X-frame, and I do carry it in Montana's bear country. So, for me, the 629 PC wins for its versatility.

 

[WestKentucky]

You can wrap up an x-frame if you WANT to most likely. Guys I work with don't want to and claim that it doesn't fit. I call their claim "bovine fecal matter" because I wrapped up a 500 for 2 cylinders worth one day, and only stopped because the owner started cringing at the cost of ammo I was eating up.

As for whether a port is useful or not, I despised a 627 6" due to recoil but love it's bastard twin from Taurus which was factory ported. Very little difference in weight, feel, or trigger, so the only active factor between them was the porting. The Taurus feels like a 357 mag.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

My opinion regarding Magnaporting is that it affects nothing hardly at all. I actually don't believe porting does anything except lighten your wallet. If it DIDN'T lighten your wallet, folks would probably agree it doesn't do jack.

I owned an EDM at one time and ported my own guns - essentially, the porting was free because I owned the machine. So, I have no reason to believe porting works merely because it lightened my wallet.

Porting turned my Detonics Combat Master from a snarly little beast into a gun that was easy to shoot as the muzzle jump was reduced by at least 50%.

The Enforcer Muzzle brake (ported into the barrel - not attached to the front) on my Les Baer .308 reduces the recoil to sub-.243 level.

The muzzle brake on my .460 X-Frame S&W makes the gun controllable for follow up shots using the heaviest loads.

Your opinion doesn't match the reality of my experience with porting and muzzle brakes.

 

[flip888]

I owned an EDM at one time and ported my own guns - essentially, the porting was free because I owned the machine. So, I have no reason to believe porting works merely because it lightened my wallet.

Porting turned my Detonics Combat Master from a snarly little beast into a gun that was easy to shoot as the muzzle jump was reduced by at least 50%. I highly doubt this is true, unless your a 90lb woman. You likely just perceived it made a difference because you were hoping it would. It likely only wasted your time and ruined your guns resale value...

The Enforcer Muzzle brake (ported into the barrel - not attached to the front) on my Les Baer .308 reduces the recoil to sub-.243 level. have you fired that same exact gun unported in .243 back to back? If not then how would you know...

The muzzle brake on my .460 X-Frame S&W makes the gun controllable for follow up shots using the heaviest loads. controllable compared to what? Again I'm doubting it made any real world difference.

Your opinion doesn't match the reality of my experience with porting and muzzle brakes.

Porting either ruins guns unless under the exact right circumstances, or it does nothing at all.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

My opinion regarding Magnaporting is that it affects nothing hardly at all. I actually don't believe porting does anything except lighten your wallet. If it DIDN'T lighten your wallet, folks would probably agree it doesn't do jack. It's complete crap as far as I'm concerned. 100% pure snake oil, or as Scientific American would say, "confirmed nonsense". I've been around the block a few times, and I've seen nothing in the way of actual evidence that it does anything. What I've read is folks who swear it provides some benefit--but no evidence whatsoever. Complete Hope in the darkness of despair.

Now, there's the case of my new-to-me 629 that was magna ported as part of the original factory product (Classic Hunter II Lew Horton). This is a complete joke. The ports had to be put it at about 30 degrees from horizontal, so already you know any speculative impact they might have is reduced by 50% immediately (as far as holding the muzzle down). I had my Kahr K40 magnaported, and I absolutely love how it looks, and so does everyone else. Does it do anything? You gotta be kidding me...it doesn't do anything at all except make the gun louder, and even that's a 'maybe'.

You definitely have more experience than I do but it is surprising that it does nothing (except for the wallet-lightening).
The physics of the design would imply that it works (except for the case such as the one you describe where the ports are modestly above the horizontal; but even those could be optimized if the angle of the drilled port would drive the gas closer to the vertical than the actual placement of the ports).
And many people do extol the value of MagnaPorting.
But it does make sense that they don't bear on felt recoil (in to the palm) though they would affect muzzle flip. But I guess even that could be altered if the port drilling drove the gases toward the shooter rather than vertically. But I just don't think that's the intent of MagnaPorting.
Again, it sure sounds like the majority of the comments points to their being little or no degradation of bullet speed due to MagnaPorting. I'm still surprised, but accept it.
B

 

[captain awesome]

I can attest that it does reduce muzzle flip to a large degree, especially when using slower burning magnum revolver powders. the heavier the bullet, and the smaller the powder charge, the less effective it will be. any one who says its complete nonsense needs to retake high school physics class.

I had some 300 grain bullets loaded to max with h110 for my 500 magnum with an 8 & 3/8" barrel with the vertical compensator on it. the most notable thing when firing them was that there was almost no muzzle rise, but the torque from the bullet going down the rifling rotated the whole gun and my hand. Not to a painful degree but one handing it would almost go 90 degrees if I let it. that was quite an experience, and proved to me that porting a hand gun under the right circumstances can do a LOT.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

That's amazing. I never thought about the torque thing, presumably from the counterforce of accelerating the spin on the bullet as it's accelerating down the barrel. That is big-time power.
B

 

[RealGun]

My opinion on 44 Mag short barrel models is that they are for someone else. My wrist strength wouldn't handle it, and I wouldn't buy a magnum just to shoot 44 Special.

*note that I don't use decimals for caliber except for those like .357, which is the actual bore size. .45 Colt or ACP is another example. These other numbers are just caliber marketing names.