Opinions wanted: Gunsafe type and placing on floor joists.

[HOOfan_1]

I've used the search feature and found countless threads. So far I can't find a concensus, although I think those most knowledgeable have probably answered the question.

I just bought a house. It was built in 1956 and has hardwood floors. I am not sure what the underlying material is. Like all houses in my area it has a crawl space and the floor is supported by joists. I've only been using a wooden guncase with a plexiglass front for the past 32 years. I would really like to upgrade my security and fire protection.

What is the prevailing wisdom on placing heavy gunsafes on floors supported by joists? Would it be better to put it in a corner of the house? How should it be bolted down?

I would like to buy a quality safe. If I need to go up to $2000 I can, but to pay more someone would really have to convince me that anything costing less is real crap. I already have at least 15 long guns to go in it and could easly balloon that number up to 30 or more. Delivery is more than likely a must.

 

[splithoof]

Most houses built in that era were of solid, quality construction. Likely the floor joists are of 2"X8" or bigger, and 16" on center, with concrete piers connecting 4"X4" posts to the sub-surface. Because most closets are connected to walls, and likely load bearing walls, the floor should offer plenty of support for a large safe. To ensure this, inspect the floor from the crawl space, and if necessary bolster the floor with additional support from extra piers and uprights. Be sure to use pressure-treated lumber to reduce termite and dry-rot issues. Four heavy duty 5/8" lag bolts with flat and lock washers, in addition to two more lag bolts into wall studs should give good anchoring into a conventional floor. 5/8" drywall sheeting if in a closet should also offer some additional fire protection. Don't forget to conceal the safe in some manner from casual observation from either inside or outside the room.

 

[splithoof]

There are plenty of good safes, and some not so good. I would avoid cheap ones like the Bighorn line from Costco, they are made in China. Exterior hinge models give more interior room, also figure out the direction the door will open, as it make it easier to access depending on safe location. BTW, most gun safes are really classified as Residential Security Containers, but there are some other board members better qualified to explain all that, and particular brands/models. Have the safe delivered; a good quality unit is going to be heavy, so don't injure yourself moving one from a truck to your location. The better safe builders do their own deliveries, so the folks who deliver should be backgrounded, checked out, etc.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

What split hoof is saying is correct. Most floors from that era are 2x8 floor joists but 800+ lbs in one spot for 10 years could have an impact on the drywall in your wall in respect to cracks starting from the corners. Especially if your house has the plaster board or wet plaster over steel expanded metal walls which is more in the time frame of when your house was built.

I would definately bolster the area the safe will be setting on and also use carriage bolts from the underside up to bolt down your safe with. The round head with the square shoulder won't allow anyone to unscrew it from under your house. Carriage bolts are really soft metal but when there is nothing to get ahold of from underneath, they can't be tampered with.

You can probably figure on 600lbs plus for any mid-price range good quality safe for the bottom light end of the weight spectrum for just a 24 gun safe that will easily hold at least 20 guns if you jam them in there and beat them up doing it.

That gives you no room for anything else. So if you are going to buy a 50+ gun safe to start with it is going to be heavy, or buy a 36 gun and have no room in it for anything else after you have your 30 long guns.

You could also buy a 36 gun to start with and later buy an additional safe for everything else you want to jam in there. But where are you going to put it?

See what I'm getting at? If you have to re-inforce your floors, think ahead and only do it once. You may want to re-inforce it in more than one place in your house the first time, or if your going to buy a really large safe then re-inforce your floors in respect of it with some pre-purchase planning once you decide what you want to end up.

Buying a safe really sucks. So many variables.

 

[Roadking Rider]

If there is a crawl space under where you want to place the safe do not trust the joist to hold the safes weight. Your best bet would be to go under the joist in the crawl space and make a cinderblock support tier to carry the load. Remember your safe will more than likely only be sitting on two to three joist. The span of the joist will dictate what size joist they used,They could be as small as 2x8 or as large as 2x12. They could also be 3x? also.

 

[bergmen]

Here is an excellent resource on choosing a gun safe:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

Lots of very good objective information here.

Dan

 

[otiac]

heavy safe

All the responses have legitimacy;remember, it is going to be a lot easier to do it nowbefore the walls crack, the floor dips and the joists bow. In addition you might consider throwing some "headers"/cross beams under the safe's position
to strenghthen the joists.Pressure tereated for sure plus use the coated nails used in a framing nailer. Ask the Lord for help and guidance. Good luck!

otiac

 

[chiggerbyt]

First check to see which direction your floor joists are running. Chances are from front to back but you never know till you look. If you can place your safe inside along an outside front or rear wall you will distribute the weight down to the foundation thru however many floor joists are directly beneath it. Hope that's clear. I'm a carpenter but some older houses and newer ones are built in strange ways sometimes so you will have to take a peek and see what you have under there.

 

[BobTheTomato]

I have seen a few cases where people used foor jacks underneath floor beams to support the weight of the safe.

 

[Arp32]

The basic problem is you're putting a point load out away from a footing (probably). Really what you want to do us spread that load out a bit and/or carry it directly down into the earth.

Of course this is Internet advice and I haven't seen your framing layout, but...

Working from the safe and going down, the flooring probably rests on deep 2x's as mentioned above. I would place a set of 2x6's or 2x8's under those running perpendicular to the originals. Maybe 3 or 4 of them at the same spacing as the floor joists, under the location of the safe, and long enough to pick up the load from 3 or 4 floor joists (so 50-80" long). You could nail blocking between the new 2x's to keep them from twisting or falling over. I wouldn't nail to the original joists, just get a nice tight fit.

That cribbing could rest on CMU (concrete block) piers to carry the spread-out load down to the ground. I'd build them like two short parallel walls, not a stack of blocks under each end of each individual 2x6. Two long piers is probably more stable than 6 or 8 skinny stacks of block. Under the CMU, excavate a foot or so and fill in with compacted gravel (tamp it down real good, maybe lay some scrap plywood on top and whack the heck out of it with a mallet). Easier said than done, of course, since you're hunched over under the house! You could even pour a small concrete footing with some rebar, but at that point it's probably a bit overkill.

Hope that made sense. Seemed easier to explain from the safe down, of course you'd build it from the ground up.

If you do go this route (or a similar one), be sure to inspect it every do often to see if it's all working out ok!

 

[BSA1]

Ditto on cross pieces and concrete blocks. I would lay a 12" x 12" or 24" x 24" flat piece of patio concrete for base to help spread the weight then stack the concrete blocks. Add shims to fill the gaps and you are done.