Optimizing accuracy and budget. Help!

[Derek Zeanah]

So this is the year I will finally go to some PRS shoots in my region, which means I'll probably make a fool out of myself as I (re)learn the arts of target identification and wind reading at ranges up to 1,300 yards or so. But I've got a good gun, and I'd like to be reloading ammunition that's consistent enough that ammo isn't the issue that's holding me back.

So I'm looking for reasonable accuracy without investing too much into this before I decide whether to take this sport really seriously.

I'm pretty certain in the end I'll be shooting 139gr Scenars, 140gr AMAX, or 140gr Berger VLDs on top of Reloder 19 or H4831SC using Lapua brass. That's the end point, and I'll need to do some testing to see what works best in my rifle.

Right now, though, I need to understand all the steps I should be taking to make ammo the right way. A buddy wanted me to make him some 22-250 ammo over the weekend which resulted in about half-MOA for my first batch reloads which wasn't bad. But the hair-pulling over the lessons I was learning was just rough - in this case it turns out resizing factory new brass was essential or the rounds wouldn't necessarily chamber properly.

So, what I have now:

• I've got a tumbler with some Lee media in it. Works fine, though I wish it worked faster.
• I'm priming with an RCBS handheld device - works fine
• RCBS Rockchucker supreme - no issues unless I forget to lube cases for full-length sizing, but I think that lesson is locked into my brain pretty well
• Lee neck resizing die
• An RCBS Chargemaster 1500 that I'm really impressed with.
• 4 reloading trays, with some funnels that should have been included with the Chargemaster kit in my opinion.
• A Redding Competition Bullet Seating die.
• I've discovered Hornady Lock 'n Load Die Bushings, which means I'll now need to build die storage since nothing fits in the original boxes any more.

I know I need the following.

• Probably some way to clean the inside of fired cases, especially after they've spent a few hours grinding against bits of corn cob. (I've only ever loaded factory-new brass at this point)
• A way to trim cases for length, ideally with some short-cut that's faster than using the micrometer on each one. This includes chamfering and deburring steps.
• I probably want a decapping die. Does it make sense to pop the primers out before throwing the cases in the tumbler, as separate process from resizing?
• I definitely want a better way to capture primers after I use the decapping/resizing die. I don't like picking these things up off the floor at all.

And that's as far as I've figured all this out.

I'd love pointers and tips from folks who've walked this path before.

 

[hdwhit]

The last time I shot further than 225 meters, I was in basic training, so I have zero experience at the distances you are talking about. I only posted to tell you that if you can even hit a target at nearly a mile away, I take my hat off to you.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I was going to recommend Thunderbeast's training, but apparently they don't do that any more. But Zak had me scoring first-round hits on 10" targets at 1,000 yards with a .308 after less than a week.

Long range shooting is fun. I'd highly recommend taking a class if you're remotely interested.

 

[Driftertank]

Don't worry too much about residue inside cases after tumbling. It falls out pretty easily, only issue ive had is if the cases are decapped before tumbling sometimes it can work into the flash hole. Just poke it out with a bit of wire in that case.

For trimmers, RCBS Trim-pro 2 is pretty fast and foolproof once set up, though i personally use a Lyman AccuTrimmer because it was cheap and doesnt use a squeeze collet. I just use a low-drag hand chamfer tool for deburring and chamfering. Couple quick twists is all it takes. Can tire the hands out quickly if you load a lot, though.

I don't generally size/decap until after tumbling, personally.

 

[dgod]

Rockchucker Primer Issue: Contact "TheGerman" on this forum, he makes and sells Primer catching system (For the Rockchucker), I have one and it works great.

As for Case Trimming, I use the RCBS case trimmer, I know there are several available from several sources.

I agree on the RCBS handheld device for Priming if it is the Universal.

As for De-Priming, I believe one of, if not the Best solution is at the https://MightyArmory.com

I hope this helps, just my $0.02

Dan.

 

[Dudedog]

• Probably some way to clean the inside of fired cases, especially after they've spent a few hours grinding against bits of corn cob. (I've only ever loaded factory-new brass at this point)

Wet tumbling with pins will make the brass look like brand new. If deprimed the pockets come out spotless as well.
About an hour in the tumbler and they are clean.
I just put mine on an old towel to dry, outside if it is warm, otherwise on the bathroom floor inside.
However I don't really know if it would really make any difference in the accuracy, cases sure look nice though.

I believe there was a thread with the Frankford tumbler on sale for $120 posted recently.
I have the Lyman Cyclone which works great, came with pins and trays to separate the brass and pins.
It is nice to have one of the magnets designed to pick up the pins.

Looks like PRS could be lots of fun, hope you enjoy it and shoot well.

 

[Ireload2]

Buy a hand punch from Lee to knock out your primers.
Remove the decapping pin from your dies. Knock out primers by hand and keep the trash and primer ash away from your press.
Slow down. Speed is not a virtue.
Do all case sizing, trimming, deburring and uniforming then store the brass for priming and charging later.

I do not recommend completing all operations from A to Z in one continuous session.
Make sure you are fresh and Not Fatigued when charging cases and seating bullets. That is when stupid mistakes can have serious results.

 

[Blue68f100]

Most all shooting long distance FL size. Meaning some use a body die first then a neck sizer, bushing type or specially honed out die. They also buy supples in bulk so ever item os of the same lot. You would be surprised how much a powder change or bullet impacts the end results. You will need to address brass work hardening by annealing. Some do it every load cycle to keep everything consistent. Then you may need to check your bullets for concentric runout. A crony is also a good tool to have when your working up loads. It also tells you how consistent your ammo is, we are looking for single digits here.

 

[Walkalong]

I've discovered Hornady Lock 'n Load Die Bushings, which means I'll now need to build die storage since nothing fits in the original boxes any more.

I modded my RCBS etc die boxes and they will fit. Have to grind some of the supports. I'll post a pic later.

I'm priming with an RCBS handheld device - works fine

Yep, although I did use a Sinclair hand primer for 6 PPC.

Probably some way to clean the inside of fired cases, especially after they've spent a few hours grinding against bits of corn cob. (I've only ever loaded factory-new brass at this point)

I have shot some great aggregates with 6 PPC cases that were shot, then wiped clean on the outside with NeverDull and the necks just casually brushed out.

I have shot some great groups with corn cob tumbled .308 cases with nothing done to the neck or inside of the body.

How bad do you let the corn cob mix get before trashing it?

A way to trim cases for length, ideally with some short-cut that's faster than using the micrometer on each one. This includes chamfering and deburring steps.

Giraud Tri Way Trimmer

I probably want a decapping die. Does it make sense to pop the primers out before throwing the cases in the tumbler, as separate process from resizing?

Any of them will work, but a new member @WaynePatrick (MightyArmory) sells these that look superb.

I tumble (Or otherwise clean (Wipe off)) the fired brass with the primer in, then size/decapp, then use a primer pocket uniformer on the primer pocket for "accuracy" reloads.

 

[FROGO207]

You do realize where this is all going don't you? Lets see----Wet tumbling makes the brass like new----annealing saves the brass after all the hard work---water weight is the final way to weigh the brass after separating it into batches by dry weight. Prep, prep, prep, trim, neck turn, weigh bullets and separate, etc., then become excruciatingly booring with every detail. Every round must be the exact same copy of the one before etc. etc. Quite the rabbit hole if you go full in. Some of us find it really fun and others tend to loose interest fast. If you enjoy challenges and thrive on small details the sky is the limit and you will do well. Good luck in your quest. Not sure about the budget part though.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just to add onto Walkalong's post:

1. I'm not as clever as modding boxes. I bought the Forster Boxes from Midway for $5.55 each (it was my birthday) All my dies are fitted with Hornady bushings
2. I've used the RCBS Universal hand primer, but my hand gets tired. I bought the Co-Ax bench primer
3. The inside of the cases don't really need to be clean (but it's pretty). Wet tumbling will get cases spotless. If you stick with dry tumbling and just want it to go faster, try using Roasted Buckwheat.
4. Giraud Tri-way is great. The other popular one is the WFT
5. I use a Lee decapping die. The largest time saver has been adding the Inline Fabrication Case Ejection system. I just got a primer pocket uniformer and really like it also

I also highly recommend the Inline Fab Ergo Handle and Ultramount...also a lighting system

 

[9mmepiphany]

I definitely want a better way to capture primers after I use the decapping/resizing die. I don't like picking these things up off the floor at all.

Should have either gotten the Co-Ax press or at least the Lee Classic Cast

 

[Walkalong]

I bought the Forster Boxes from Midway for $5.55 each

I had way too many die sets to do this. Ground out/down some tabs, popped others off.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I really like that you could fit the Redding Competition Seating die with bushing into the box. I may give it a try

 

[Walkalong]

The Redding boxes with the holes on the outside for cases don't mod as well.

 

[taliv]

+1 walkalong and 9mm

having shot PRS style matches since before the PRS (and I've already paid for a few in your area, so maybe we can get squadded together), I'll share my basic reloading for matches

cleaning:
i used to tumble with corncob or walnut hulls till i ran out of media. it works fine. today, i just make 2-3 turns on the neck with some steel wool and that's all the cleaning they get.
I would NOT recommend tumbling with steel media for any length of time. shiney is NOT important. clean cases won't reduce your SD/ES or give you more accuracy IME.
I have never cleaned a primer pocket in my life. hasn't kept me from getting single digit extreme spreads or nice groups.

case prep:
assuming good brass
forget about case sorting, primer pocket uniforming, neck turning (unless you get a wildcat that needs it), etc. All you need to do is trim (the aforementioned giraud is as good as it gets) and full length size. I wouldn't recommend neck-sizing only. I don't use a decapping die, but be careful if you do to make sure it is sized appropriately for the flash hole. you don't want to create problems where there were none. I would also recommend annealing before resizing, but you can get away without it for a few loadings usually.

loading powder:
join the precision powder dispenser group on fb. I'll wager almost every person in the top 30 are weighing powder charges down to the individual kernel, using one of 3 automated tricklers or by hand. the acculab/sartorius lab scale is what i use. Starting out, You will of course benefit more from positional practice than time in the reloading room, and spending money on gear like tripods and bags and glass etc than lab grade scales, but if you want to get near the top, this is important.

the redding die is a solid choice.

I pretty much just put a cardboard box under the press to catch primers. a broom takes care of the stragglers

 

[Walkalong]

Everything I have been told about long distance shooting is they tend to weigh charges. I don't doubt that it is better, despite how well some thrown charges can shoot at 1K. For those who shoot at varying distances all day long it must be double tough compared to shooting all shots at a known yardage during the day.

My discipline was short range. I shot Benchrest at 100 and 200, and no one weighed charges, at least not then, don't know about now with all the fancy portable scales/tricklers.

Throw and go.


Oh yea, I shot some bad ones too.

 

[Driftertank]

I don't put as much effort into the tiniest details as some here do...i dont generally weigh individual cases and heads, sorting by weight. I dont turn case necks or use a concentricity checker. I don't shoot benchrest, and feel that, as i do most of my shooting from supported or unsupported field positions and hold to the old rule of 1x magnification for every 100yds, it is simple enough to produce ammunition that can deliver better accuracy than i can without the additional steps.

What i DO focus my OCD on is charge weight and seating depth. I use a powder dipper to trickle my charges into an RCBS 10-10 scale and match up my charges to within the width of the line on the needle of the scale...probably half a tenth of a grain. For my 7mm i use a Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die.

 

[taliv]

I'm pretty certain in the end I'll be shooting 139gr Scenars, 140gr AMAX, or 140gr Berger VLDs on top of Reloder 19 or H4831SC using Lapua brass. That's the end point, and I'll need to do some testing to see what works best in my rifle.

btw, those are all kind of ancient projos. everyone shoots the berger hybrids instead of the VLD. and the hornady ELD instead of amax. and if your'e going to shoot lapua, the 136g, but i wouldn't recommend it unless you get a super good deal on it.
i've switched from berger 140 hybrids to the 135 JLK for this year.

what cartridge are you using?

 

[Derek Zeanah]

btw, those are all kind of ancient projos

Of course. I bought them a half decade ago.

what cartridge are you using?

I've got something like 500 Remington (R P headstamp) brass that I'll be starting with.

 

[Driftertank]

Think he meant like, Creedmoor, 55 Swede, -284, etc.....?

 

[Nature Boy]

Something I’m working on now is variation in bullet base to ogive and shorting to eliminate that variable.

I’ve read this has an effect on accuracy but I’ll need to see it to believe it.

None of these things matter if you can’t reliable eliminate you from the equation. Othewise, there’s no way to know what you’re doing to the loading bench is helping ot not. I’ve been really forcing myself to have a consistent trigger break and position behind the rifle so it recoils and tracks straight back where I never lose sight of the target. This has really helped with the down range consistency

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Gotcha. .260 Remington this year.

 

[taliv]

variation in bullet base to ogive

for PRS, nobody does that. mostly because you're going to go through 3000+ bullets per year and how many would you have to buy to sort them?

.260 Remington

R17 or H4350 if you can find it. varget is also good. or try the newish imr4451

 

[Nature Boy]

for PRS, nobody does that. mostly because you're going to go through 3000+ bullets per year and how many would you have to buy to sort them?

And I may only do it once depending on the results