OR Teacher to challenge ban on guns in schools.

[Bobarino]

http://www.komotv.com/news/local/9689222.html

By Associated Press
MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) - A high school teacher in southern Oregon plans to challenge a school district policy that prevents her from carrying a gun on school grounds.

Portland lawyer Jim Leuenberger said in an e-mail message to the Mail Tribune newspaper that he will ask a Jackson County judge to declare the Medford School District's policy "illegal and void" for holders of concealed handgun licenses.

"There is a state statute that prohibits local governments - including school boards - from restricting possession of firearms by concealed firearm permit holders," Leuenberger said.

Leuenberger said the teacher wishes to remain anonymous and he will list her name as "Jane Doe" in the complaint. When contacted by the Mail Tribune, the teacher said she wants anonymity because she fears for her and her daughter's safety.

Leuenberger said the woman has divorced her husband and obtained a restraining order against him.

The woman contacted the lawyer and the Oregon Firearms Federation after school officials approached her about rumors that she was carrying a weapon. Schools attorney Tim Gerking said the teacher denied the accusation, but officials reminded her about the district policy.

"It's our responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for our students and a safe working environment for our employees," Gerking said in an interview late last week. "We feel that would not be fostered by allowing folks, whether they have the authority or not, to bring weapons onto campus, in particular firearms - loaded firearms."

Kevin Starrett, executive director of the firearms federation, said he had been looking for a case like this one so he could challenge schools' prohibition of firearms.

"We were approached by the individual because she had been threatened by the school district," Starrett said. "It was just a perfect opportunity for us to get some judicial resolution to this."

Though the Medford teacher wants the gun to protect herself from an ex-husband, Starrett said armed teachers could prevent school shootings.

"I worry about people being gunned down like dogs because they've been denied the right to have their self-defense firearm," Starrett said.

But School Board Chairman Mike Moran, a retired lieutenant with the Medford Police Department, said he's worried that the firearm could fall into the hands of a student.

"Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."

 

[MD_Willington]

"Even if it's a totally legitimate person with a legitimate permit, can you adequately guarantee that it will not fall into the hands of a student?" Moran asked. "You can't."

Well then, LEO's should not be exempt from school carry laws, I mean can they guarantee they will not lose their sidearm? No they can't!

 

[Old Fuff]

Indeed! And how many officers have left their hardware behind after leaving a public washroom?

 

[Sharps-shooter]

When I went to school in Eastern Kentucky, there was a janitor/hall monitor who carried a pistol on his hip all the time. I think a couple of the teachers did also. Carry in a school was and still is illegal in KY. The way they got around this was to get deputized by the local sherrif. I'm not sure if this is a viable solution for modern day (laws etc might be different, and undoubtedly not everyplace is lke eastern KY), but it might still be a useful way to go about it.

 

[Crunker1337]

I don't want to have to become part of a "ruling class" to enjoy basic human rights.

Restricting the right to self defense to law enforcement is not a good idea IMO.

 

[BlisteringSilence]

When I went to school in Eastern Kentucky, there was a janitor/hall monitor who carried a pistol on his hip all the time. I think a couple of the teachers did also. Carry in a school was and still is illegal in KY. The way they got around this was to get deputized by the local sherrif. I'm not sure if this is a viable solution for modern day (laws etc might be different, and undoubtedly not everyplace is lke eastern KY), but it might still be a useful way to go about it.

You know, that's an interesting idea. I know that my sheriff would be down for it.

 

[ServiceSoon]

Good for her.

 

[Geno]

Gerking said in an interview late last week. "We feel that would not be fostered by allowing folks, whether they have the authority or not, to bring weapons onto campus, in particular firearms - loaded firearms."

So, do police officers strip their weapons and leave them in their patrol car? That is "authority" to carry as well. Do I seem to recall, correctly, that some agent of late who "capped" himself in a classroom, while asserting that he was the only one in the class "qualitfied" to shoot himself in the foot?

Unfortunately, the CCW in Michigan has become a shell-game. The politicians gave more people authroity to carry, but they can carry in fewer places.

 

[scubie02]

if a person is carrying a handgun on their person and concealed, it's a hell of a lot safer than leaving it unattended in a vehicle somewhere, probably parked 1500 feet away which makes it even EASIER to steal with nobody seeing it (in ny you can't be within 1500 feet of a school with any "weapon", and apparently even ammo counts as a "weapon" as a student recently got busted for "weapons" charges because it was found that he had two 22 shells under the seat of his car. Our society is headed so far down the crapper it's not even funny...

I'll be amazed if this suit does any good, but man it would be nice. Of course, NY would just ignore any supreme court ruling or anything of the sort--they break the law whenever it suits them and no one seems to force them to stop.

 

[Rumble]

I thought schools were already okay for carry in Oregon? Or is that only for people who are visiting?

Or am I thinking of a different state?

 

[Stickjockey]

I think you are confusing law with policy. State law says CCW in schools is okay, but school policy usually says that teachers can't, being employees and all.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Rumble

According to Oregon law it is legal to carry at schools if you have a concealed weapons permit. This no gun thing is just school district policy and a lot of other places in Oregon. I remember reading about one guys long running dispute with the Port of Portland over carrying in the airport. It also boils down to just policy but they have a bunch of goons (thier own private police deprtment) that are quite nasty to run into. They get away with it because of peoples fear of guns. I guess no one has had the time or the money(the big thing) to contest these policies in a personal court case until now. At least the way the law is written it is on our side which is good.

 

[Rumble]

Ah. Thank you both.

 

[romma]

Well, they will trust anyone with a permit to enter schools in Oregon with a firearm, except the very people they are supposed to trust to teach children and look after them... Nice

 

[scubie02]

teachers tend to get treated like criminals. In NY they have to be fingerprinted and have a background check, and if you change jobs and go to teach at another school, it happens all over again...

 

[ArmedBear]

teachers tend to get treated like criminals. In NY they have to be fingerprinted and have a background check, and if you change jobs and go to teach at another school, it happens all over again...

A number of teachers I've met lately ARE criminals.

But a number of them aren't.

 

[BlisteringSilence]

teachers tend to get treated like criminals. In NY they have to be fingerprinted and have a background check, and if you change jobs and go to teach at another school, it happens all over again...

Police, fire, ems, social work, dcfs, all these people are fingerprinted and background checked at every job. That doesn't make us criminals.

 

[scubie02]

yes, but you see, they purposely make it so more and more jobs require fingerprinting, they prey on parents fears and get them to fingerprint their kids--pretty soon they have a nice database of everybody's fingerprints to go along with the national ID's they will have foisted upon us in a couple of years. Then voila, you have the police state you deserve I guess.

 

[CountGlockula]

Looks like my state's infection is moving north.

 

[kd7nqb]

The teacher will hopefully win the suit, I know Oregon Firearms Federation has taken the case and is accepting donations online for the legal defense. This case has huge implications not only for school employees but us college students that are in the same law vs policy trap.

 

[boomer1911a1]

Oregon case to watch

I hope this isn't a duplicate. First I've heard about it...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070918/ts_csm/aselfdefense

Should teachers be allowed to pack a gun? By Brad Knickerbocker
Tue Sep 18, 4:00 AM ET



Ashland, Ore. - In court documents, she's known as "Jane Doe." Innocuous enough, but the woman behind that pseudonym pushes one of the nation's hottest political buttons: guns and school safety.

What Ms. Doe wants to do is take her Glock 9-mm pistol to the high school in Medford, Ore., where she teaches.

She's licensed to carry a concealed weapon and she has what many supporters say is a legitimate reason for being armed: a restraining order against her ex-husband based on threats he's allegedly made against her and her children.

But district policy prohibits anyone except a law-enforcement officer from bringing a weapon onto campus. When word got out that she had a concealed-carry permit, administrators reminded her of that policy. There's the political rub: According to state law, "any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition, is vested solely in the Legislative Assembly."

Backed by gun-rights groups, Doe intends to challenge the school district in state court this week. Meanwhile throughout the country, lawmakers are filing bills that would make it legal for adult school employees to carry firearms, in some cases providing special weapons safety training for those who want to be part of their school's security force in addition to their classroom teaching duties.

Gun-rights groups and school boards around the country are paying close attention to the Oregon case.

"There's a specific state statute that prohibits local governments, including school districts, from passing laws or policies prohibiting people from owning or possessing firearms," says James Leuenberger, the Portland, Ore., lawyer representing the teacher.

"Jane Doe," who agreed to be interviewed by phone on condition of anonymity, says she does not want to be viewed as an "Annie Oakley." Trying to extricate herself from an abusive relationship led her to buy her first gun just a few years ago, she says. Prior to that she had not been an activist in defense of the US Constitution's Second Amendment provision regarding "the right to keep and bear arms."

But as a veteran teacher, she has come to believe strongly that having responsible armed adults on campus could have prevented tragedies such as those at Columbine High School in Colorado, Thurston High School in Oregon, and Virginia Tech University last April.

"I have no doubt at all that any time a criminal has gone into a school intending to commit violence they did so knowing nobody was going to be able to stop them," she says. "We've seen what happens when teachers do nothing or can do nothing, and that's not acceptable to me."

According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 37 states have laws specifically banning guns at schools. In general, administrators, teachers' organizations, and law-enforcement agencies favor such laws. In the confusion of a school shooting, police officials have said, adding guns to the situation just makes the predicament more dangerous.

The state panel investigating the April 16 shootings by a mentally disturbed student who killed 33 people at Virginia Tech University (the nation's deadliest school shooting) agrees.

"If numerous people had been rushing around with handguns … the possibility of accidental or mistaken shootings would have increased significantly," the panel wrote.

But that has not stopped a push by the NRA and other gun advocates to allow guns on school property as a safety measure.

In Michigan last week, 16 state lawmakers sponsored legislation allowing teachers, administrators, and other school employees to carry concealed weapons on school property. Ohio has a similar bill pending.South Carolina, Alabama, and Virginia are among several other states that have considered lifting school campus gun bans this year, according to Stateline.org, which tracks state issues.

Louisiana lawmakers refused to pass a bill that would have outlawed guns in college dormitories, and legislators in Maine similarly killed a bill that would have given colleges the authority to prohibit guns on campuses.

Anthony Stavros, a member of the Nevada State Board of Regents governing higher education and a Las Vegas police captain, has proposed deputizing university employees as reserve officers, trained and qualified to carry weapons. The Iowa Board of Regents is close to allowing campus police to be armed.

But efforts to allow guns in grade schools and high schools tend not to get very far in state legislatures. The South Carolina measure failed. Administrators and the state teachers' union in Michigan have voiced strong opposition to the proposal there.

So far, just one state - Utah - allows concealed weapons on campus. Utah's law applies to public colleges and universities. The University of Utah opposed the 2004 legislation that allows weapons on campus (including those owned by students with concealed carry permits), but lost in the state supreme court.

For high school teacher "Jane Doe," who takes her case to court this week, the issue is very personal.

"I have two children in school," she says, "and I would like to think that if something like that ever happened, there would be somebody there to do the right thing to protect my kids."

 

[strat81]

Being discussed here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=301824

Interesting case, I hope she wins.

 

[mpmarty]

Very poor choice of forum for 2nd A and teachers or other licensed adults to carry in schools.

This lady doesn't want to carry in case some nutjob comes to school to start a shooting rampage, she wants it so she can shoot her ex husband if he violates a restraining order. Bad choice!

 

[littlegator]

Hypothetical: Regarding deputization of a school employee, does the employee have an affirmative duty once deputized to pursue the criminal element in the school? In other words if a student starts firing away in the school, will the deputized employee be liable if they don't respond? Instead of gun use, what if the student has broken the law in some other way - affirmative duty to arrest and/or subdue?

I know it will depend on the local and state law in the jurisdiction at issue, so this is just food for thought...not looking for an answer to a question that is not easily answerable.

 

[alucard0822]

I myself wonder how the "rumors" of her carrying got started. Most CCers spend quite a lot of attention at avoiding "printing", perhaps her ex husband spread the word. Seems like a good way to disarm an intended victim.