(OR) Gun issue raises concerns

Status
Not open for further replies.

Drizzt

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
2,647
Location
Moscow on the Colorado, TX
Gun issue raises concerns

Possibility of teachers carrying concealed guns on campus alarms parents, students

September 11, 2007

A controversy over a teacher who wants to bring a concealed weapon on a Medford high school campus has stirred up debate among parents, students and officials.

"I think it's a stupid idea," said Destiny Belleque, a South Medford High School junior. "What if a kid got a hold of it?"

The teacher, who the Medford School District has declined to identify, was approached by district officials after they heard rumors she was carrying a concealed weapon on campus. The teacher denied the accusation and agreed to comply with district policy prohibiting firearms on school grounds, they said.

Now, backed by the Oregon Firearms Federation, the teacher intends to ask a Jackson County Circuit Court judge to declare the policy "illegal and void" for holders of concealed handgun licenses.

District officials said they will fight the complaint, citing the safety of students and staff.

Belleque said she would prefer the school district consider more security measures to make the campus safer rather than ever entertain the idea of teachers with guns.

But Jacksonville resident Jeff Borchers said he thinks the district should have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding concealed weapons.

He said the possibility of teachers having guns on campus could be a deterrent to some crime.

If the district remains steadfast in not allowing guns on campus, Borchers said it could expose the schools to potential liability if there was a shooting and nobody had the weapon to stop it.

"What if they excluded guns from campus, and another nut case shows up?" he said.

Borchers said he decided to get a concealed handgun license after he and his wife were accosted on a walkway in Corvallis several years ago. "I think of it as fire insurance," he said.

The 56-year-old said he doesn't know whether his opinion would change if he had children. "Perhaps that's colored my thinking on this," he said.

Sen. Alan Bates, a gun owner, said there is nothing in the state law that prevents a person with a concealed handgun license from entering a campus with a gun.

The Ashland Democrat said he believes the decision to allow weapons on campus should be made by each individual school district.

"I would favor writing a law saying a school district should make its own policy," he said.

Bates said he remembers that about 20 or 30 years ago, some schools in Oregon allowed students to bring rifles to campus during deer hunting season.

Bates said he would be willing to discuss the issue in the Legislature, but would like to hear from both sides.

He said he understands there is some logic to the idea that if a teacher had a gun it could potentially prevent a tragedy.

It is not clear why the Medford teacher wants to carry a weapon on campus. Her lawyer, Jim Leuenberger of Portland, said she had divorced her husband and obtained a restraining order against him. When contacted by the Mail Tribune, the woman said she wanted to remain anonymous because she feared for her and her daughter's safety.

It also is not clear whether she ever brought a gun to work with her.

Sheriff Sgt. Bob Grantham said a rough estimate of the number of Jackson County residents with concealed handgun licenses is 10,000.

Following the Virginia Tech shootings in April, the number of applications for permits locally spiked to 343 in May compared to an average of about 200 a month, said Grantham.

Since then, the number of applications has settled back down to 200 a month, he said.

Grantham didn't have statistics on which gender took out the most permits, but he suspected the majority of applicants were men.

For some parents with children in school, the idea of having a concealed weapon on campus is inconceivable.

"Absolutely not," said Nancy Flowers, who has one child at South Medford High and one at McLoughlin Middle School. "To bring a gun on campus is just unacceptable."

She said the danger of an accidental shooting far outweighs any supposed benefit in protecting the campus from a crazed shooter.

"More can go wrong than it can go right," she said.

Bringing a gun on campus also raises other issues about how and where it would be stored, such as in a car, in a purse or in a locked desk, she said.

Allen Henrichs, whose youngest child is a senior at South Medford High School, said, "I'm against it. It's not a good idea. I think schools in general are not a place to have weapons."

He thinks the school administration makes an effort to make the campus as safe as possible.

He said he's heard the argument about guns being a deterrent, but he's not buying it.

"What about accidentally shooting themselves or other people?" said Henrichs.

Reach reporter Damian Mann at 776-4476 or [email protected].

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/NEWS/709110301
 
That is the dumbest story I have read all day, and its the end of it. I wonder what the result of intelligence tests would show between RKBA folks and grabbers?
 
I'm still trying to wrap my mind aroud a few sentiments I've heard expressed by opposition to this idea.
Simpleton said:
1. What if a student got ahold of it?
My first thought is always "How many students have the stones to grab a gun off of someones hip?" ... And "Why aren't the parents afraid of the cops holstered guns too?"
Simpleton said:
2. What if someone were shot accidentally.
We've got several hundred thousand people (excluding cops, security and various other "proffessionals") carrying guns daily in the US. I haven't heard about a severe spike in accidental shootings related to it. In fact, last I checked accidental shootings have been dropping in the US for about 10 years straight. All the while CCW permits are going up.
Simpleton said:
3. Schools are no place for guns.
Just what would be a "place for guns"? I say schools are no place for a brace of unarmed targets ... but I'm hinky that way.
Simpleton said:
4. The risks outweigh the benefits.
I fail to see any elevated risks in having trained citizens carry pistols around. I certainly see no more elevated risk to that than having more armed security on campus. The latter is just exponentially more expensive.
Simpleton said:
5. Teachers should be educating, not protecting the students.
It's my position that they should be doing a little of both. If the state is going to force me to pay to send my child to the "education camps" it has set up it should offer a modicum of security. It should also do it as cheaply as possible. Heck, I paid almost $4,000.00 last year for school taxes and I don't even use the darn things. I didn't when I was a kid either, I was educated overseas.
 
it's really sad that as a country the majority of americans have become such wusses. It's clear that a big bunch of people are actually afraid of guns and basically anything pointy. My best friend is a teacher during the day but also a part time local police officer, and got reprimanded for having a POCKET KNIFE at school last year. How sad is it that an individual would feel threatened by something like a little 2" bladed pen knife!? I don't know how they get through a day...
 
And "Why aren't the parents afraid of the cops holstered guns too?"

Because in some peoples minds, they believe the cops have Super-Duper Ultra superb Jedi training that make them invincible.

Those people should read the threads posted here regarding Police and their guns in bathrooms... They are only human too...
 
I have spoken to anti's before that mentioned police training.

It was be simple to require that they teachers either conceal and don't tell anyone and/or complete a self defense class in weapon retention if someone attempts to grab it. There solutions to a lot of those fears, but fear is irrational so they don't listen.


These are the same anti's who tell you violent crime is rare so you really don't need that gun.
 
I think there is some middle ground to be had here.

Teachers and staff should be allowed to carry, but the gun needs to stay on their person, in a retention-type holster, the entire time they're on school property. No storage of guns in lockers, no cleaning or handling of the guns, no loading/unloading, etc...

The only time the gun can leave the holster would be a life or death situation.

This will do 2 things:

- Prevent a student from ever getting ahold of an unattended gun
- Prevent a teacher from having a ND in the school

If either of the above 2 things happened, that would be the end of "arming the teachers" initiatives.
 
Colt, call me crazy but I didn't envision any other scenario. I guess I just assumed that it would follow the CCW protocol in just about every single place where it's currently legal.

I mean, when you carry (my assumption) do you normally just drop your gun in your desk and then perodically take it out to play with it? I doubt it. I doubt most people would be the daft.

But hey, I'm just logical and reasonable like that. Call me kooky.
 
HKUSP45C said:
Colt, call me crazy but I didn't envision any other scenario. I guess I just assumed that it would follow the CCW protocol in just about every single place where it's currently legal.

I mean, when you carry (my assumption) do you normally just drop your gun in your desk and then perodically take it out to play with it? I doubt it. I doubt most people would be the daft.

But hey, I'm just logical and reasonable like that. Call me kooky.

Never under-estimate the creativity of stupidity. I think Colt's suggestion was reasonable, and probably a good carrot to get teacher's armed. I could live with those rules being in place.
 
Colt, call me crazy but I didn't envision any other scenario.

You might want to think outside the box a little more.

If you were an anti-gun teacher, and the state passed legistlation allowing teachers to carry on campus, what would be the easiest way for you to prove teachers shouldn't be armed?

But hey, I'm just logical and reasonable like that. Call me kooky.

I don't know you, but judging by your post, I peg you as more naive and smug than logical and reasonable. Call me observant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top