Orange County,CA New Sheriff Wants to Make Sure All CWP Are Legal

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Solo Flyer

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It looks like she intends to do a very thorough review.This probably means a lot of permit holders are going to be very unhappy.:(

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gunpermits18-2008jun18,0,5805212.story

Sandra Hutchens says she wants to ensure that those issued licenses by her indicted predecessor have a good reason.

By Stuart Pfeifer and Christine Hanley, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
June 18, 2008
Newly appointed Orange County Sheriff Sandra Hutchens said Tuesday that she intends to review all the concealed-weapons permits that her indicted predecessor issued and revoke those of gun owners who can't prove a legal need to carry the weapons.

When former Sheriff Michael S. Carona resigned in January to focus on his upcoming federal corruption trial, he had issued more than 1,100 active carry permits -- among the most issued by any sheriff or police chief in the state. Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca, by contrast, has issued fewer than 400.

The O.C. sheriff made donors his deputies
Many were issued to traditional holders: judges, prosecutors, jewelers or others whose occupation leaves them in fear for their safety.

But others included wealthy white-collar businessmen, doctors, dentists and financial contributors to Carona's political campaigns.

In its October indictment, a federal grand jury accused Carona of having issued a concealed-weapons permit to a businessman who had previously been convicted of unlawfully possessing a concealed weapon. Others to whom Carona issued licenses included Orange County Republican Party activists Michael Schroeder and Adam Probolsky. Schroeder could not be reached, and Probolsky declined to comment.

Hutchens said she intends to review each permit and determine whether the gun owners demonstrated an immediate fear for their safety or held an occupation so inherently dangerous that they needed to carry concealed weapons in public.

"The important thing to me is they need to have demonstrated a need," Hutchens said.

And if there's no need, she'll revoke the permits. "That's probably not going to be popular with a lot of people," she said.

Hayden Heal, a gun ownership advocate who served on a committee that drafted Carona's weapons permit policy, said he thought Hutchens was well advised to review the existing permits.

"I would be surprised if she didn't review all of the policies, especially when you have the controversies Carona had in his demise. I'm quite sure the new lady wants to make sure everything is squeaky clean and make sure there's no patronage," Heal said. "I think it would be in everyone's best interest to have them reviewed. It's not just the smart thing, but the right thing."

Carona's policy allowed people to be issued concealed-weapons permits if they passed background checks and demonstrated good cause, as determined by the sheriff.

Heal, who was issued a permit for self-protection in his role as a treasurer for a charitable foundation tied to the National Rifle Assn., said he has continually been asked to produce documentation to support his application. He is up for his two-year renewal this year.

"They always seem to want something on paper, so it's just not a handshake and a kiss, and here's your permit," Heal said.

In addition to her concerns about the concealed weapons, Hutchens said she would review the files of all reserve deputies, to make sure anyone serving as a volunteer is qualified and sincerely interested in helping the department.

Shortly after taking office in 1999, Carona appointed scores of campaign donors as reserve deputies, issuing them badges and in some cases guns without background checks or training. The appointments escaped public scrutiny until 2005, when a Los Angeles Times article raised questions about whether Carona was handing out badges as political favors -- an allegation he denied.

Over the years, several reserves with close ties to Carona have been caught misusing their credentials.

In one of the most serious instances, Carona's longtime martial arts instructor was accused of flashing a gun and badge at members of a foursome playing ahead of him on a San Bernardino County golf course.

Raymond Yi was convicted in May of making a criminal threat and could be sentenced to up to three years in prison.

The department needs the reserves "if they are here for the right reasons. If you're here for personal gain, if you want a badge or a gun, we don't need you," Hutchens said. "It certainly shouldn't be a political favor."

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Hutchens was a mistake, IMO, and not (just) because of the CCW deal. There were several much more qualified candidates who were passed over, and the whole thing really smacks of politics and gamesmanship. Hard to do worse than Carona, though, despite his relatively pro-gun stance.
 
This is precisely why we need to push for statewide "shall issue". This "may issue" stuff isn't cutting it. Far too much power rests in the hands of one man (or woman) for it to be a fair and nondiscriminatory method.

Californians, I think, can view this as an opportunity. If it turns out that she's only cutting permits for bona fide cronies, great. If she's going to restrict CCW even more - it's time to do a TON of campaigning for shall-issue and start pointing out all the flaws. Not that it shouldn't be done anyway, but this could be a prime opportunity. Watch and wait.
 
Legislative overhaul is definitely in order for California. How best to rally the troops, though?
 
Hayden Heal, a gun ownership advocate who served on a committee that drafted Carona's weapons permit policy, said he thought Hutchens was well advised to review the existing permits.

*snip*

Heal, who was issued a permit for self-protection in his role as a treasurer for a charitable foundation
How kind and unbiased of him.
 
Like she is going to pull the permits of her supporters :rolleyes:

If she were really concerned about equality, it would be shall issue. There is a reason that discretionary parade/demonstration permits requirements are laughed out of court on 1st amd. grounds.
 
What I can't figure out, is what possible justification for this action can she present with a straight face?

Has there been a high percentage of problems with (the very few) CCW holders out there?
 
Sandra Hutchens says she wants to ensure that those issued licenses by her indicted predecessor have a good reason.
What? Defense of yourself isn't good enough? Constitutional law isn't good enough?


"The important thing to me is they need to have demonstrated a need,"
Need? The need is self preservation.

"I think it would be in everyone's best interest to have them reviewed. It's not just the smart thing, but the right thing."
Review them all you want, but don't revoke them simply because they can't prove a need for it. Revoke it cause it's illegal for that person to have, not otherwise.

Carona's policy allowed people to be issued concealed-weapons permits if they passed background checks and demonstrated good cause, as determined by the sheriff.
Rightfully so. What's the problem with that? The only problem I see is that the people still had to demonstrate a good cause as to why under Carona's office.



Who had the right mind to elect someone like her to office?
 
anyone else think it's interesting? Ca starts 2 lawsuits against unjust CCW issuing districts (which was good!)... the same week, a newly elected person says she will review all CCWs, revoking those that don't have specific "need"... interesting. Can't quite tell if Ca CCW is headed in the right or wrong direction yet.
 
Originally posted by D94R:
Rightfully so. What's the problem with that? The only problem I see is that the people still had to demonstrate a good cause as to why under Carona's office.

Well, CA law requires one to demonstrate "good cause", as determined by the sheriff. That's a state law problem, not the sheriff's problem. The sheriff's problem is in being excessively restrictive about it.
 
Has there been a high percentage of problems with (the very few) CCW holders out there?
The former sheriff is under Federal indictment for corruption. The case is very strong and not a surprise to many who live here. He was pro gun but apparently also pro take money for favors.

The CCW issue was brought to a head when the former sheriff's martial arts instructor pulled a gun on a golf course to threaten the group in front of him for not playing fast enough. This then uncovered the fact that large donors and friends of the sheriff were issued permits and in some cases, reserve deputy badges without any training.
 
What I can't figure out, is what possible justification for this action can she present with a straight face?

Has there been a high percentage of problems with (the very few) CCW holders out there?

Sadly, it's Corona's fault. He could have been pro CCW and just left it at that, but he did hand them out to cronies, some of who, are not legally able to own a handgun.

He brought all of this on. She's just trying to clean house and restore the image of the department which is VERY tarnished right now.

I HOPE she'll just revoke any permit issued to convicted felons (yes, it happened) and Corona's political cronies.
 
The CCW issue was brought to a head when the former sheriff's martial arts instructor pulled a gun on a golf course to threaten the group in front of him for not playing fast enough.
Dang! That couldn't have helped the case for citizens of the state even a little bit.

What an ######!
 
Sadly, it's Corona's fault. He could have been pro CCW and just left it at that, but he did hand them out to cronies, some of who, are not legally able to own a handgun.

He brought all of this on. She's just trying to clean house and restore the image of the department which is VERY tarnished right now.

I HOPE she'll just revoke any permit issued to convicted felons (yes, it happened) and Corona's political cronies.
I'm so depressed. :(
 
The former sheriff is under Federal indictment for corruption. The case is very strong and not a surprise to many who live here. He was pro gun but apparently also pro take money for favors.

God, it was worse than that.

Carona has a "gangster fixation". He liked to hang out with obvious gangsters (several in Las Vegas), he once came to a costume party dressed up like a 1930s gangster, and he did issue CCWs to outright criminals.

So a review of permitholders is assured. Problem is, looks like it's going to be a serious gun-grabber doing the reviews. SIGH.

DOUBLE SIGH.

Goddammit, I warned the California NRA guys years ago that Carona's CCW policies could be seen as favoritism. "Oh no, Carona's our friend!" "Uh guys, Carona is seriously hinky on CCW-related public records access, it sure as hell looks like he's got something to hide!" "HE'S OUR FRIEND!!! - LEAVE HIM ALONE!"

Well crap. He had something to hide, didn't he? And now the dumb barsterd is in Federal custody somewhere after appearing in NRA video ads.

God. Dammit.
 
If Carona's cronies weren't felons, there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to have a permit. If we all go back to the fundamentals, "may issue" permits run directly against the 2A anyway. Instead of getting mad that they're allowed permits, we should be madder at the "may issue" license requirement in general. Rumors of Carona's "gangster fixation" are irrelevant if felons are not actually involved. Let's keep perspective. Are we our worst enemies?
 
If Carona's cronies weren't felons, there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to have a permit. If we all go back to the fundamentals, "may issue" permits run directly against the 2A anyway. Instead of getting mad that they're allowed permits, we should be madder at the "may issue" license requirement in general. Rumors of Carona's "gangster fixation" are irrelevant if felons are not actually involved. Let's keep perspective. Are we our worst enemies?

Jake, you have it all wrong. You see, Had Corona just retired or been a good guy and voted out of office the CCW thing might not have become a target, but because he made a point to hand them out to cronies AND criminals who then abused the privilege CCW permits are on the radar.

Of course we're pissed about may issue vs shall issue, that goes without saying.
 
Half of that is media spin. This is California after all. If he was anything less than a choir boy, an anti-gun journalist would be out to barbeque him.

He handed permits out to felons? Or did they become felons afterward? That's a big difference. I still have not come across concrete evidence that Carona was so bad. At this point, it's allegations and speculation from California sources.
 
Well Jake, I guess we'll just have to wait for the trial. I'm curious if you've actually read up on Corona and his close underlings. The upper echelon of that department was rotten to the core. I feel very bad for the rank and file there.

Yes, he once issued a badge and CCW to a political crony who had a prior felony conviction for DV. He quickly yanked it back after the OC Register started sniffing around.

Google Mike Corona, George Jaramillo, and Don Haidl.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
I was and am strongly pro-cop, and Carona had my full support for a long time -- longer than he should have, in retrospect. The case against Carona & Co. is extremely strong, and those who point out that the CCW review process comes as a direct result of that aura of corruption are exactly right, IMO.
 
My guess is she wants to update the contributor list for the next political campaign in OC.

Of course, I'm from Chicago and we're all genetically pre-disposed to be uber-skeptical about office holders in general.
 
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