Oregon active shooter drill

[OH_Spartan]

There are several local news outlets reporting on this but I haven't seen a thread here. Forgive me if I missed it.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/apr/30/active-shooter-drill-scares-halfway-teachers/

Basically a Washington state school had a teachers- only day, no kids in attendance. The school staged an unannounced active shooter drill with masked men firing blanks. The purpose was to highlight how many teachers would have died and how unprepared they are. I think their drill also opens the opportunity for us to engage others, whether antis or noncommittals.

The first thing that comes to mind is...."would the school have held an unannounced active shooter drill if the teachers were allowed to conceal carry on school grounds?" Of course not, one of the actors might have gotten killed for real. Hmmmm.....would that have reduced the hypothetical body count? If so, why shouldn't teachers be allowed to carry in school?

Or, what if a teacher was carrying a concealed weapon, in defiance of the weapons free zone, feared for his/her life, and returned fire on the actor-gunmen. Can you imagine the court case at would ensue?

Or, lets say none of the teachers had a gun, but someone grabbed a pair of scissors, and engaged hand to hand combat with one of the actors, causing severe injury or death. Can you imagine the mess that would follow?


Edited....this occurred in Washington state not Oregon. Mods, can you change the thread title, I do not know how to.

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

LOL That is funny if they did this at my school there would be kids pulling out knives and running out to their cars to get their hunting guns and returning fire....the actors would be dead.

 

[InkEd]

This is a STUPID idea. I am surprised none of the teachers did not fight back.

What if the wrestling coach broke one of the actor's arms or the shop teacher showed an alternative use for a screwdriver (or maybe one of those nice cordless circular saws)?

 

[CCP_Holder]

These morons should thank God that no one was carrying a concealed weapon, even if against regulations. This could've turned out very badly.

 

[nulook45]

In Ohio

some of the schools have started alowing staff to go armed . Someone could very well get shot and killed doing a stunt like this ,.... Wake up folks !!!!

 

[morcey2]

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn, "That's about as sharp as a sack a' wet mice."

If that were done in Utah at almost any school, someone would have ended up dead.

 

[Texan Scott]

I'm waiting for one of the teachers to sue the school district for PTSD.

"Sharp as a sack 'a wet mice" is right. :banghead:

 

[Schutzen]

Brain Dead

Apparently none of the nimrods planning this ever dreamed that a teacher might grab something like like a ball bat or a broom stick to beat a gunman to death. Or what about just throwning the first thing handy at a gunman to ruin his aim. Say like the $1000 laptop computer the school district bought for the teacher to use. Not every teacher is a sheeple.

An unannounced "active shooter " drill is beyond stupid.

 

[OH_Spartan]

Would any school district try this if they knew teachers might be carrying?

 

[OilyPablo]

Sounds like duck and cover.

 

[Ankeny]

An unannounced "active shooter " drill is beyond stupid.

I agree. The school in question is a small charter school with only a dozen or so teachers. The two masked gunmen opened fire in a room during a teacher's meeting. Dumb or not, I would imagine the aftermath of a drill like that conducted with air soft guns would be an eye opener.

 

[mydawgg]

What Foghorn Leghorn said!

Reading on it sounds like the conversation moved to include arms in the school for protection. Too bad it took that action to get there.

 

[OH_Spartan]

If someone counter attacked and killed the actors in a situation like this, would a self defense strategy stand in court? This question can be taken with or without the complication of someone carrying a concealed weapon in disregard for gun free zone.

 

[4season]

This is why we have a nation of sheep. None of these teachers had the instincts to fight back. Even though they know it can happen they were still totally surprised and unprepared. These are the people that are responsible for educating our children and yet they can't learn even the most simple and basic lessons from Sandy Hook.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Or, what if a teacher was carrying a concealed weapon, in defiance of the weapons free zone, feared for his/her life, and returned fire on the actor-gunmen. Can you imagine the court case at would ensue?

Or, lets say none of the teachers had a gun, but someone grabbed a pair of scissors, and engaged hand to hand combat with one of the actors, causing severe injury or death. Can you imagine the mess that would follow?

"Drills" like this are the hight of stupidity.

I once knew an officer who thought the way to test sentries in combat was to sneak up on them. He lost an arm when a sentry fired on him.

 

[barnbwt]

From what I've read, the teachers had participated in some sort of active shooter training ("duck and cover" I'm sure ) and were told a drill would be forthcoming at some point, unannounced. Might have been in their own homes for all they knew

All the more reason to carefully read insurance waivers. I'll bet that seminar's was a doozy. I'm sure they are indemnified against PTSD, heart attacks, sprained/broken limbs, and the shooting of their employees in self-defense.

"What if a cop was happening by" indeed. God, what if those teachers had had scissors?

I love how they said two of the teachers would have lived. How, pray tell, was that determined? Were those two left after neutralizing the attackers, or did they crawl under their bullet-proof desks until those one-use "clips" were emptied? "A couple in the front, and a few in the back." Were they seriously using simunitions on these poor folks, too? So they stained their sweaters, and their pants

We really need an explanation from the principal. Only two reasons they could have pulled this one, and both are emotionally manipulative. Scare the teachers into fearing all firearms (probable) or scaring teachers into demanding defense weapons (unlikely, and, while founded in logic, a repugnant way to deliver the argument)

TCB

 

[evought]

Ouch. I can see where the information gained by this might be valuable, but one thing that is made clear in training to run emergency exercises is that participants have to know the rules and the limits of the scenario. You clearly cannot do that if the participants don't know they are participating.

In addition to the possibility of successful self-defense by the teachers, one of them mentions considering using a window as an escape route. Would a teacher with multiple broken bones from jumping ship be a 'successful exercise outcome'? How could they have had any signals or triggers for handling real emergencies and injuries during the exercise? There is also, of course, the issue that blanks aren't necessarily 'safe'. Blanks or wax rounds have to be used very carefully in training.

The fact that teachers did not recognize gunfire in the halls is interesting. That was true of some of the students at Simon's Rock. I had to convince my girl friend to stop trying to go out in the hall to find out what was going on, close the door, and get under the bed. Makes me wonder how to test that with an exercise in a bit more controlled fashion.