mljdeckard
Member
Val was a great gentleman who contributed much to the community and our universities. It was my honor to meet him a couple of times.
I THOUGHT I knew who John Browning was.
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Deltaboy1984
Member
Browning is the KING of the Earth when it come to gun design. Noone else comes close.
Jim Watson
Member
Weighs a ton, too. Contains the pressure by sheer mass of metal, or so it feels like.
OP
OP
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I had someone tell me once that he said his greatest achievement was the Auto-5.
Any body know if he did in fact make that statement?
Any body know if he did in fact make that statement?
bigalexe
Member
One the one hand i read about people like this and am amazed at their genius. However on the other its almost disheartening to me being an engineer that all these things have been invented, I very much doubt I could ever become as great a designer as some of the past geniuses Browning included. Seriously for one guy to design and bring to market 5 different firearm actions never before seen, that's something not even possible anymore.
The genius of Browning is that he didn't just design *guns* he designed the *operating systems* of how the guns worked.
The gas powered semi-auto? Browning invented that concept and the designed the first gun to use that idea.
The pistol slide? Browning invented that recipocating slide. Before pistols used breech blocks more like rifles or other systems, like the toggle lock.
Most modern pistols use some variation of the locking system Browning invented around the start of the 20th Century.
So, we not only owe him for the individual great guns he designed, but we owe him even more for the concepts he pioneered that are still used by other designers today.
No one comes close to John Browning in terms of influence on modern firearms design. The runners up would include Maxim (for the recoil operated gun) and the French chemist who invented modern propellents. (The name escapes me at the moment)
The gas powered semi-auto? Browning invented that concept and the designed the first gun to use that idea.
The pistol slide? Browning invented that recipocating slide. Before pistols used breech blocks more like rifles or other systems, like the toggle lock.
Most modern pistols use some variation of the locking system Browning invented around the start of the 20th Century.
So, we not only owe him for the individual great guns he designed, but we owe him even more for the concepts he pioneered that are still used by other designers today.
No one comes close to John Browning in terms of influence on modern firearms design. The runners up would include Maxim (for the recoil operated gun) and the French chemist who invented modern propellents. (The name escapes me at the moment)
walker944
Member
I believe that was Paul Vielle in 1884 that invented smokeless powder.
dmazur
Member
I'm a great fan of Mr. Browning.
I have a 1911, and I knew he designed that. This is "common knowledge".
I later acquired a reproduction Winchester 1895 in .30-06, and was pleasantly surprised to learn that Browning was the designer (of the original.)
However, I had a Browning SA22 (the semi-automatic .22 rifle) for quite a while before I found out that Browning was the designer of this one as well!
Truly genius, the design permits takedown and bolt removal without tools.
I read somewhere that the SA22 was one of his last designs.
I have a 1911, and I knew he designed that. This is "common knowledge".
I later acquired a reproduction Winchester 1895 in .30-06, and was pleasantly surprised to learn that Browning was the designer (of the original.)
However, I had a Browning SA22 (the semi-automatic .22 rifle) for quite a while before I found out that Browning was the designer of this one as well!
Truly genius, the design permits takedown and bolt removal without tools.
I read somewhere that the SA22 was one of his last designs.
preWWWIIbuff
Member
Model 8 & 81
Per Guns and Ammo
the Remington Model 8 was the brainchild of John Moses Browning. Originally patented in 1900, it was the first successful high-powered semiauto rifle made in the United States--or just about anywhere else, for that matter.
This recoil-operated wonder had a number of innovative things going for it. It featured a rotating bolt with dual lugs that locked into the rear portion of the barrel. When the gun was fired, the barrel, bolt and bolt-carrier assembly recoiled all at once, allowing the bullet to exit the barrel before the mechanism unlocked. During this operation a couple of heavy springs inside a sheetmetal covering surrounding the barrel were compressed.
When the bolt went back as far as it could, the springs forced the barrel forward, unlocking the bolt from the rear extension. After the barrel had completed its travel, it released the barrel lock and allowed the bolt/carrier to strip a round from the magazine.
It's a very efficient, powerful setup and provides reliable semiauto function. There's no pesky gas system to worry about, and the piece works well under some pretty adverse conditions with a minimum of maintenance.
But there's more. The Model 8 was equipped with a five-shot box magazine that could be loaded by means of a stripper clip, just like the military bolt-action rifles of the period.
The gun was never intended to rival some of its contemporary heavyweights; the action was simply not up to the pressures of an 8mm Mauser, 7.62 Mosin-Nagant or .30-06, nor could it physically handle rounds of those dimensions. Instead, it was offered in .25, .30, .32 and .35 Remington, all rimless cartridges with performances on a par with some of the more moderate lever-gun loads.
The heftiest of the batch, the .35 Remington, had velocities similar to the .30-30 but with a beefier bullet, giving it more knockdown power. Understandably, the .35 proved to be the Model 8's most popular loading .
All of the Model 8's chamberings were intended for short- to medium-range work and within their particular parameters were more than up to the task.
The magazine looked like it was removable and could be taken out, although not without effort involving some disassembly. Unless there was some malfunction, this was not something to tinker with at hunting camp. The gun was really designed to be charged through the top of the receiver either with single rounds or the aforementioned clip.
Another great feature was a large, positive sheetmetal safety mounted on the right side of the receiver that locked the trigger and prevented the bolt from being moved to the rear. I can't believe this setup wasn't the inspiration for the similar arrangement seen on the AK-47 (I should have asked Mikhail Kalishnikov when I met him in Russia a few years ago, but I suppose I was too busy sampling his vodka and caviar to think about such things). There was also a small, unobtrusive bolt release located on the left of the frame, just above the trigger guard.
Oh and BTW its a TAKE DOWN fits real nice in its small case!!!!!!
BEAT That!!!!
anyone have have any strippers for 35 Rem
Per Guns and Ammo
the Remington Model 8 was the brainchild of John Moses Browning. Originally patented in 1900, it was the first successful high-powered semiauto rifle made in the United States--or just about anywhere else, for that matter.
This recoil-operated wonder had a number of innovative things going for it. It featured a rotating bolt with dual lugs that locked into the rear portion of the barrel. When the gun was fired, the barrel, bolt and bolt-carrier assembly recoiled all at once, allowing the bullet to exit the barrel before the mechanism unlocked. During this operation a couple of heavy springs inside a sheetmetal covering surrounding the barrel were compressed.
When the bolt went back as far as it could, the springs forced the barrel forward, unlocking the bolt from the rear extension. After the barrel had completed its travel, it released the barrel lock and allowed the bolt/carrier to strip a round from the magazine.
It's a very efficient, powerful setup and provides reliable semiauto function. There's no pesky gas system to worry about, and the piece works well under some pretty adverse conditions with a minimum of maintenance.
But there's more. The Model 8 was equipped with a five-shot box magazine that could be loaded by means of a stripper clip, just like the military bolt-action rifles of the period.
The gun was never intended to rival some of its contemporary heavyweights; the action was simply not up to the pressures of an 8mm Mauser, 7.62 Mosin-Nagant or .30-06, nor could it physically handle rounds of those dimensions. Instead, it was offered in .25, .30, .32 and .35 Remington, all rimless cartridges with performances on a par with some of the more moderate lever-gun loads.
The heftiest of the batch, the .35 Remington, had velocities similar to the .30-30 but with a beefier bullet, giving it more knockdown power. Understandably, the .35 proved to be the Model 8's most popular loading .
All of the Model 8's chamberings were intended for short- to medium-range work and within their particular parameters were more than up to the task.
The magazine looked like it was removable and could be taken out, although not without effort involving some disassembly. Unless there was some malfunction, this was not something to tinker with at hunting camp. The gun was really designed to be charged through the top of the receiver either with single rounds or the aforementioned clip.
Another great feature was a large, positive sheetmetal safety mounted on the right side of the receiver that locked the trigger and prevented the bolt from being moved to the rear. I can't believe this setup wasn't the inspiration for the similar arrangement seen on the AK-47 (I should have asked Mikhail Kalishnikov when I met him in Russia a few years ago, but I suppose I was too busy sampling his vodka and caviar to think about such things). There was also a small, unobtrusive bolt release located on the left of the frame, just above the trigger guard.
Oh and BTW its a TAKE DOWN fits real nice in its small case!!!!!!
BEAT That!!!!
anyone have have any strippers for 35 Rem
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bigalexe
Member
Honestly man those machines don't make it any easier to design real new technology. What they do is allow for greater efficiency and speed in the design process. The design of new technologies is in the mind of the engineer, CNC Machines allow repeatability and reduce the amount of accidents (scrap parts) in prototypes. CAD systems don't in and of themselves inspire divine drawing inspiration, they reduce the number of trees you kill in the process. As far as extra staff goes, well thats dependent on the engineer.
So really not using any of those things doesn't make you so much more of an individual IMO, it just takes longer to get an idea in your head through design, prototyping, and bring it to market.
Jim Watson
Member
If you don't get the CAD right, the CAM will turn out scrap faster than ever before.
One facet of Mr Browning's genius was very comprehensive patents. He probably had some help on that. The Colt patent attorney, C.J. Ehbets, was obviously a pretty sharp cookie himself. They were so complete that the first Winchester automatic shotgun, the 1911 "widowmaker" was cocked by hauling back the barrel itself, the 1903-1910 auto rifles by pushrods through the foreend. The A5 patent covered all imaginable applications of a cocking handle on the breechbolt.
Which goes to show how unappreciated some of the other designers of the day were. They had to produce functional, salable guns without infringing on the many Browning patents. John Pedersen and T.C. Johnson had their work cut out for them.
One facet of Mr Browning's genius was very comprehensive patents. He probably had some help on that. The Colt patent attorney, C.J. Ehbets, was obviously a pretty sharp cookie himself. They were so complete that the first Winchester automatic shotgun, the 1911 "widowmaker" was cocked by hauling back the barrel itself, the 1903-1910 auto rifles by pushrods through the foreend. The A5 patent covered all imaginable applications of a cocking handle on the breechbolt.
Which goes to show how unappreciated some of the other designers of the day were. They had to produce functional, salable guns without infringing on the many Browning patents. John Pedersen and T.C. Johnson had their work cut out for them.
bonza
Member
While the 1876 Winchester chambered some pretty powerful chamberings, the 1886 was the first Winchester repeater to be able to handle the .45 Govt. (.45/70) cartridge. One of the '76's chamberings was the .45/75, but it was a shorter bottle-necked round that used a much lighter bullet than the .45 Govt.'s 405/500gn projectiles.
bigalexe, JMB did more than design guns on paper and sell the ideas. To receive a patent, you must present a working model. These didn't fall out of the sky. He built these on some very rudimentry machine tools. He also designed and built a factory to build his first guns. Thomas Edison said:"Invention is 1% inspiration and 99% persperation" or words to that effect. Yes, he thought up many different gun designs, but he knew how to build them, too.The idea or concept is not the end of the process, just the beginning.
BHPshooter
Member
That's not entirely true -- Browning designed the Grand Rendement to compete in French military trials. Dieudonne Saive modified it through several years worth of trials, and in 1928, when the patents on the 1911 expired, Saive began applying many of the 1911's features to the design, and presto, we have the BHP.
3 people worked on the BHP -- John Browning, Dieudonne Saive, and John Browning.
I very much recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Browning-High...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249507334&sr=1-1
Wes
Jim Watson
Member
Marlin beat them by five years with the 1881.
nicholst55
Member
The same rifle used by Texas Ranger Captain Frank Hamer to end the careers of Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow. Hamer was called out of retirement by the governor of Texas and given a special commission by him, and the governor of Louisiana to hunt down Bonnie and Clyde.
Hamer had long been known as an incredible marksman with both rifle and handgun. If you read his biography, he is alleged to have stepped out of concealment and ordered the pair of miscreants to surrender; Bonnie responded by taking a shot at him with a shotgun. Hamer fired two rounds before the other officers waiting in ambush opened up.
Now it's not certain that Hamer actually killed the duo, but if you examine the autopsy photos carefully, you will notice a bullet hole very near the center of the .no-reflex zone' - or, right between the eyes.
Captain Hamer's Remington is on display at the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum at Fort Fisher, Texas, along with a bunch of other neat old guns and memorabilia.
Not true. There is nothing in the patent process that requires any real hardware.
A couple of interesting facts already alluded to in various posting.
Browning took time off from designing to carry the Morman faith to others (I think two years?)
The machine he used best was his brain. His brothers actually were the ones who took the ideas and converted them into working objects.
And the designs he came up with needed further modification so as to be manufactured efficiently. Winchester employed a couple of men who took Brownings patents and streamlined them for production.
Interesting man and life, no one before or since has impacted the firearms community as much. The only one of his designs I have is a Winchester 1895. For me, that is his best design.
Browning took time off from designing to carry the Morman faith to others (I think two years?)
The machine he used best was his brain. His brothers actually were the ones who took the ideas and converted them into working objects.
And the designs he came up with needed further modification so as to be manufactured efficiently. Winchester employed a couple of men who took Brownings patents and streamlined them for production.
Interesting man and life, no one before or since has impacted the firearms community as much. The only one of his designs I have is a Winchester 1895. For me, that is his best design.
Officers'Wife
Member
All I know about the man is his design of military full automatic weapons contributed to my grandfather and great-grandfather coming home from the world wars. That alone is enough to earn my gratitude.
Selena
Selena
Officers'Wife
Member
According to the patent office, only perpetual motion machines require a working model. All others only require blueprints.
bonza
Member
I know, that's why I specified 'Winchester repeater' in my post, Winchester had already chambered the Model 1885 High Wall in .45 Govt. before the '86, too. I used to have an '81 Marlin in .45 Govt., very nice rifle though probably not as rugged as the Winchester '86.
mgkdrgn
Member
Winchester or the NRA should buy that house and turn it into a museum. I'm surprised it's not on the Register of Historic places ... it should be.
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