Over 35 g. in 1858?

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Beartracker

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How many of you use 35 g. or more in your 1858 Remington ? Over the years I have tried several different loads and combination wads, grease and powder searching for the perfect load. It seems that the .454 with 30 g. of Goex, a wonder wad and grease over the ball give me the best accuracy and greatest working gun, but when I head for the woods I like 35 g. of Goex.
Some people don't seem to think that 5 g. can make a difference but when it comes to penitration it seems to me to make allot of difference. I have never gone over 35g but I know a few who have and you don't have much room to play with if you use a wad. Just wandering if any of you load up heavy loads and what you found to be the benifit and how did it perform?
 
Father Knows Best, I agree about the Boooom :) The thing that surprises me is that it doesn't seem to affect the accuracy at all on these Remingtons. Did allot of work on mine as far as spit and polish goes and a few other little tricks to make it run so smooooth, but it sure is fun to shoot and becomes even smoother all the time. ;)
 
Rem. slick up

Hi beartracker:
I saw your mention of slicking up your Remington. I have a new, unused, 1858 Uberti/ Rem. new Army steel frame revolver. are there any slick ups that you would advise me to make on this new Rem? It sure is as tight as a bull's rear end in fly time. The Cylinder is real hard to get out of the frame. Do you think it will slick up much by using it?, or should I use it a while before doing anything to it?
Thanks.
Chubbo
 
Chubbo, First thing I would like to recomend for anyone who owns and shoots a 1858 Remington is to try to find and buy a book called "Black Powder Hobby Gunsmithing" By Sam Fadala and Dale Story. The book is one of the best I've ever seen for any black powder shooter and it devotes a whole chapter on how to tune your own 1858 with great pictures and step by step instuctions.
It's out of print the last time I checked but it can be found on the internet "Out Of Print" book stores with a little searching.
One thing to remember is that the reason these guns are so cheap is because they don't take the time to polish them or check tolerences like they should. That being said if you take the time to do it yourself and do it right you will have a top class weapon that's worth 4 times what you paid for it.
You can go as far as you want to fancy it up or just take some time to have it working really smoooth.
First thing you need to do is totally strip the gun and find something to keep all the little screws and parts in.
Now take the nipples out of the cylinders. Rub your fingers across the star of the cylinder (The end that faces the hammer) and you will feel that it's a bit rough. Place it in a vice but wrap it with a rag or a couple pieces of soft pine wood first to protect the finish from the jaws.Take a bastard file and keeping it as flat as you can stroke it across the stars until they feel really flat and smooth. Go slow and keep checking it as you do. Then polish it with 600 grit water paper. Oil it good and set it aside.
Now take a look at the cylinder rod and you will see that the finish on it is a little rough also. Useing the 600 grit paper keep sanding the hole lenght of it until it feels smooth to the touch, oil it and set it aside.
Adjusting the hand is something you want to go slow and easy with and only get rid of the rough edges. I like to use a stone for that or a file.Make sure all burs are gone and it's smooth all the way around but don't over do it. Oil that and set it aside.
Next you want to polish the cylinder bolt. This is what locks your cylinder in place and it must be smooth as a babys butt all over. Use your file and paper but don't get carried away, Just polish for now. Oil and set it aside.
Next is the hammer. Feel the hammer on the sides as well as the caugs and get rid of any burs with a file and polish with paper. Do not take to much off the caugs , just polish for now. Oil and set it aside.
Now the trigger. Do the same to it, just smooth and polish and make sure there's no burrs or high or rough spots.

Now put just a little grease on each part and put it all back togeather and see how it works by repeatedly cocking and letting the hammer down easy. If the cylinder still seems tight then take out the cylinder and see if it need a little more polishing and also the cylinder pin.
Before and while you are shooting it for the first 2 cylinders I would use bore butter on the barrel before every other shot.Just make sure you remove the cylinder before you run a patch down the barrel to avioid any accidents. This helps "cure" the rifeling and the steel in the barrel. Make your first loads about 20 g. 3f Goex with a woder wad over the powder then the ball and then grease over the ball. Wonder lube works great. Once you get it broke in you can use any of the other methods and concochtions you read about on here,Lol. Thay are all good and you may come up with your own ideas as you go along.
If your not sure what parts I'm talking about here just look in your manual and they have a break down in the back with the name of parts.
There are many other things that need to be done to the 1858 to get it really smooth and operating as it should but it would take a book to explaine it all and that has already been done by others.If you decide to really work it over then get a few books on the subject and ask as many 1858 cowboy action shooters as you can what they do to there's.
I haven't had a cap fall off before I shoot or one jam my gun in years due to polishing the rough edges and rounding of the open area (Ports) around the nipples and also chamfering the end of the nipples. The trick is when you put the cap on you need to "seat it" by useing a 3/8" 6" long doll rod with a small round piece of leather on the end. After you place the cap on the nipple shove it home firmly with the rod.If you have to pinch the cap to make it stay on then you have not seated it all the way or you have the wrong size cap.
Chamfering the end of muzzle of the barrel and the breech will give you better accuracy due to easier loading from the cylinder to the ramp as the gun is fired. Chamfering the muzzle will make sure there are no burs on the end to throw off the ball as it leaves the barrel. All this needs to be done with the right tools and it is all in this book as well as others.
If you mess up any of the pieces as I have through trial and err you can buy a parts kit from Cabelas but it's not listed in there book, you have to call them and ask for it.It's really cheap and you should have one anyway because loseing parts or breaking one when you want to shoot is a pain in the butt when you have to wait for parts.
Hope all this helps a little , Mike
 
Black Powder gunsmithing book

Hey, Beartracker:
Thanks for the info. I looked through my old blackpowder books, that I used when I shot BP. rifles years ago. Well , don't you know, I thought I had it, but the book that I have is Black Powder Gunsmithing by Ralph T. Walker. I also had the BP powder Handbook by Lyman. and The BP. Handbook by Sam Fadala. I am going to try and find the Black Powder Hoby Gunsmithing by Sam Fadala & Dale Story. I am sure I could use this book, as I think I have problems with the new Uberti / Remington 1858 revolver that I just bought. I also bought three R&D Drop in Conversion cylinders, madefor the Uberti / Rem. 1858. I got them at a reduction in price, by buying all three. I thought I might sell one or two of them. When I tried to put the conversion cylinders in the frame of the Rem., only one cyl. would go into the frame and yhat one does not index on the bbl. unless you rotate the cyl. another one sixteenth of an inch, and then it clicks into place. This Remington seems to be very tight, and the original cyl. is very hard to get in and out. I E-mailed R&D, and they suggested that I send the cylinders and the gun to them so they could determin what was wrong. I sort of hesitate to send them to R&D, and possably tie them for a long time, but may have to do that. I have not talked to R&D by phone but will do that tomorrow.
Thanks again.
Chubbo :rolleyes:
 
Chubbo, It sounds to me like the cylinder on the 1858 needs the stars filed down a little as I mentioned above. Also check to see If when you put the gun on half cock that the paw of cylinder bolt is droping down and out of the
way. That's the little oblong piece of steel you see sticking up in the inside bottom of the frame, it should drop down and out of site when the pistol is cocked. If it doesn't then it will be hard to get the cylinder in, if at all. If not then remove the trigger guard and losen the screw holding the spring and cock the hammer back again, then look to see if the cylinder bolt droped down and out of the way. If it did then you need to shorten the the cylinder bolt. Let me know what you find out?
Another thing to look for is the hand being to short or to long. If you reach full cock but the cylinder is not rotated far enough (Locked in the fireing mod)you need to buy another hand because this one is to short.
Let me know what you find out, Mike
 
Remington

Hi, Mike:
The paw of the cylinder bolt is droping down on half cock allright. I don't know about the hand, because the original cyl. indexes just fine, and I want to use both it, :confused: and the conversion cyls. I suspect the stars in the conversion cylinders are milled too short, but that is just a guess. I intend to call R&D tomorrow, and see what they think. I am just getting ready to hunt the internet for that book that you recomended.
Thanks.
Chubbo
 
Sure hope you can get it all straightened out . I know I love mine and it goes in the woods with me all the time and has never failed me. Have a good one and if I can help in any way just let me know. Take care, Mike
 
Check the conversion units. Are they stamped "U" for Uberti? They make the same item to fit Pietta-nade 1858s, and they are not the same size.
 
Cyli9nder stamp

Hi, Burt Blade:
Yes all the conversion cylinders have the U stamped in the face of them.
I may be sorry, but I sent them and the revolver to R&D today. I guess I will know sooner or later what the problem was.
Chubbo
 
I've been shooting 25grs so far in my '58. Accuracy has been pretty terrible at 25yds. I finally got my Pietta working again after having had it stored in a box for a year or two due to timing troubles from an overlong replacement hand (first one broke). After timing it, I also chamfered the nipples so that it actually retains #11 caps now.
I'll try 30grs and up next time I get to the range.
 
Poodleshooter, I have owned and do own several of the 1858 New army and in all of them I have found that 30g. of Goex fffg gives me terrific accuracy.The only time I use 35 g. is in the woods around here due to the Bear problems and snakes that crawl and some that walk :scrutiny: Really don't notice much difference in accuracy but it lets you know that it's a cannon!, Lol.
These guns are capable of allot more accuarcy than I can muster with these old hands and eyes but hitting a snake in the head at 10 paces is no problem :D Shooting at 20 yards with a bench rest on a good day I can have the holes touching each other or at least 4 out of 6 will be in a 3" circle.
25 yards is a little bigger spread but not by much.
We set up a 10" target at 70 yards just for the funof it one day and my friend placed 4 balls real close togeather with one bad flyer and one still well in the circle.
The best caps I have found are the German 1075 caps. Most good black powder stores have them. It's also a goood idea to shove the caps on a little tighter with a 3/8th" 6" long doll rod with a small piece of leather on the end. You don't have to do it hard. Just snug them down on the nipple.
 
jojosdad, Thanks for the info. That's what I told Chubbo and he orderd one. It's a great book with lots of close up pics and everyting you need to know to make that 1858 a weapon to be proud of.
I went a few steps more and got rid of the front sight because it just isn't natural. I cut a dove tail in the barrel and added a dovetail slide with my own german silver blade sight. The other one I had I used half of an 1858 dime for the sight. The dime cost me $20.00 off Ebay so I cried when I cut it in half for the sight :uhoh: My son has that one.
 
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