Over/Under Shotguns?
- Thread starter Bobson
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Like Bobson, I didn't understand why doubles cost so much more than pumps. That is, until I became familiar with what a good double will do. Take my 101, for instance. Here is a firearm with two barrels and one trigger. Pull the trigger once, and one of the barrels fires. Pull it a second time without doing anything else and the other barrel fires. Move the trigger to over to the side and the barrels shoot in the opposite order. Open the action and the shells pop out. That is, only the fired shell(s) pop out! How does the gun know?!!You see what I'm getting at - the firearm is an intricate, complex machine made out of tiny parts that work every time in an amazing manner. On top of that is the engraving, the nice blued finish on the outside, the spot polishing on the inside, and some handsome wood used for the stock.
Wow! $800 is a bargain!
Not to mention the work it takes to get two barrels to shoot to the same place.
OP, part of the price might be the store markup. For example, I have seen a new Browning XT Trap for sale at Cabelas for $2700, when the small gun shop down the street had one for $2100. Cabelas is frequently much more expensive than smaller gunshops in my area.
Great link. The poster pretty much sums it up.
Then what is it that makes them so damn expensive when you can buy a mossberg 500 off the shelf for $250-300? No, I'm serious. It cannot be that much of a chore to fit two barrels and ensure they fire straight. A pump shotty is far more complex mechanically, so what is it that makes SxS and OU shotties $300+ more than their pump counterparts? yeah, they can get prettied up, but come on...
Sure I'm ignorant like that, but where does the magical value come from?
hammerklavier
Member
Economics 101 -- a lot of people want a limited number of O/U shotguns, therefore the price goes up.
Very few people want a huge number of Mossberg 500s, therefore the price goes down.
Very few people want a huge number of Mossberg 500s, therefore the price goes down.
MCgunner
Member
I'm betting Mossberg out-sells all O/U manufacturers combined. I don't know this for a fact, but I would think it true. Can someone look up some industry sales figures?
No, in this day in age of lasers and CNC and robotis on the assembly line, I can't see why two barrels would be all that difficult to regulate. Only person needed to do it would be the programmer of the machine.
Don't know, but my Spartan SxS shoots real close at 40 yards and my old Sarasqueta, cost me 100 bucks in 1971, is as well regulated as a twice pipe can get. Maybe I got lucky, don't know.Because companies stay in business by producing firearms that "very few" people actually want, amiright? Next time dispense with the sarcastic response because your grasp of economics apparently fails hard.
hammerklavier
Member
Not at all. That's exactly how it works. I will admit than in the Mossberg example the "very few" is in relation to the number of 500s out there. I wasn't comparing the "Very few" against the "lot" of the first example.
Google Filli Rizzini and you'll see some sticker shock. Below is a link for your enjoyment. He is a custom shotgun maker who only makes a couple dozen shotguns a year. With a gun like this I would say it's like buying a Ferrari and more of a status symbol.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Filli-Rizzini-R-1E-Extra.cfm?gun_id=100196696
However it's similar for us mortals too. Competition shooters will have the gun custom fit to them which adds to the cost. There are better quality internals on the more expensive guns and hand fitting that you wouldn't see. Normally the wood is upgraded, custom engraving, and multiple barrel sets. It's like buying a rolex when a Timex can do the same thing.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Filli-Rizzini-R-1E-Extra.cfm?gun_id=100196696
However it's similar for us mortals too. Competition shooters will have the gun custom fit to them which adds to the cost. There are better quality internals on the more expensive guns and hand fitting that you wouldn't see. Normally the wood is upgraded, custom engraving, and multiple barrel sets. It's like buying a rolex when a Timex can do the same thing.
MCgunner
Member
Anyone don't want your mossberg, just send it to me. I'll start a collection. Got only one at the moment.
Got only one at the moment.oneounceload
member
Because a cheap pump like a Mossberg has a sewer pipe for a barrel and has the handling and balance of a pig on a shovel.
Quality barrels are not some drilled-out piece of conduit, they are "struck", and many time completely finished by hand and file - that is labor-intensive. It is done to get the barrels to a certain (typically customer specified) weight and balance point.
Those barrels then have to be joined and jointed to the mono block (unless chopper-lump) and regulated. The wood is better, the steel is better, they have more hand-fitting, and are made in smaller amounts.
What separates shotguns under $12,000 from those over that is typically cosmetic - root burl walnut, artist-signed engraving, total customization in every aspect. One gun maker ships their guns in an Italian=made leather case that by itself is $3500.
Some folks can appreciate the effort, workmanship and art involved - some can't fathom spending more than 200 on anything.
MCgunner
Member
And, some (me) have campaign tastes and a beer pocket book...as Mama used to say. I do love to look at and admire a finely tooled double, but I'm afraid I have a sewer pipe pocket book. That's okay, that sewer pipe is pretty deadly on ducks. If I could ever afford a finely tooled double, I'd probably still hit the salt marsh with a sewer pipe, maybe a Browning sewer pipe, but sewer pipe non-the-less.
If I could ever afford a finely tooled double, I'd probably still hit the salt marsh with a sewer pipe, maybe a Browning sewer pipe, but sewer pipe non-the-less.oneounceload
member
Actually, McGunner, fine doubles (used) can be found for reasonable prices on places like GunsInternational.com.
They will not be steel-safe 3.5" uber goose guns, but there are some nice older German and English guns out there in the $1500 or so range
I recently bought a S&W Elite Gold on discontinued status for 1200 - nice 20 gauge SxS with true bone/charcoal case coloring, rounded trigger-plate action and beautiful bluing - there ARE some deals out there if you want them.....
They will not be steel-safe 3.5" uber goose guns, but there are some nice older German and English guns out there in the $1500 or so range
I recently bought a S&W Elite Gold on discontinued status for 1200 - nice 20 gauge SxS with true bone/charcoal case coloring, rounded trigger-plate action and beautiful bluing - there ARE some deals out there if you want them.....
MCgunner
Member
So, um, would a Browning Cynergy or maybe a classic Superposed be two sewer pipes welded together? Just wondering.
If and when I do get an O/U, I'm going to be lookin' at new stuff with about a 2K budget. I've already got cheap SxSs, Actually, they shoot and fit me well. The Spartan did take a bit of work, though. And, yeah, it's fugly as a sewer pipe or two, but it's deadly on dove, a good working gun. When the time comes, figure I'll try for something better in a stack barrel, but I think 2K is going to be about all I can spend on one when the time comes. We'll see, that'll be a couple years from now and things do change.
We have a good gun shop here that deals in older guns and antiques. He's got a couple of Winchester 101s down there to die for. New ones ain't quite 2K in field grade. I might look into that, too, in the future, and a used gun if I can get a deal on something that ain't too beat up. But, I really want a O/U when it happens, though I do like old SxSs, not including Savage 311s, please. Yeah, it's American made, but talk about your sewer pipes!
If and when I do get an O/U, I'm going to be lookin' at new stuff with about a 2K budget. I've already got cheap SxSs, Actually, they shoot and fit me well. The Spartan did take a bit of work, though. And, yeah, it's fugly as a sewer pipe or two, but it's deadly on dove, a good working gun. When the time comes, figure I'll try for something better in a stack barrel, but I think 2K is going to be about all I can spend on one when the time comes. We'll see, that'll be a couple years from now and things do change.
We have a good gun shop here that deals in older guns and antiques. He's got a couple of Winchester 101s down there to die for. New ones ain't quite 2K in field grade. I might look into that, too, in the future, and a used gun if I can get a deal on something that ain't too beat up. But, I really want a O/U when it happens, though I do like old SxSs, not including Savage 311s, please.
Yeah, it's American made, but talk about your sewer pipes!
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oneounceload
member
Cynergy - depends on how you like it - the Superposeds have some of the best barrels ever put on a shotgun, and grade 1's are on the net for 1200 or so - granted they may be from the 50's or 60's, but field guns are rarely shot that much to be a problem with age if taken care of properly
Be careful with the older 101's - not from a quality point but from a FIT point. Everyone I know who has these complains about getting face slapped a lot - IOW, try one before you buy it to make the fit works for you
Be careful with the older 101's - not from a quality point but from a FIT point. Everyone I know who has these complains about getting face slapped a lot - IOW, try one before you buy it to make the fit works for you
MCgunner
Member
Oh, yeah, I will NOT buy one without trying the fit. I will buy over the counter, too. I've found that guns that bang my face up lack drop at comb. Cant of the stock bothers me, too, since I shoot lefty. My Spartan cants to the right and had a bit too little drop. I also added a recoil pad to it. I was able to shim it enough to get the cant and drop decent if not absolutely perfect and the recoil pad helped drop and length of pull. Now it's not too bad, but it has plastic in the stock/metal junction producing a gap which ain't real pretty. I don't wanna have to mess with any of that on a more expensive gun that looks good.
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oneounceload
member
I hear ya - I am LH as well - one thing about some makers, they will at least offer either cast neutral guns or they may have some LH models or stock options
Browning Superposed
Browning still makes them and if you have to ask oh well. Another option is the Beretta 686 line. You can pick up a brand new one for under $1800.
Current model Winchester 101's are another great option.
If your wallet allows check out Caesar Guerini, Perazzi, or Krieghoff
For some folks a Kia works as transportation and for others a AM DBS fits the bill. Thank God we still have choices. I prefer Chevy 3500HD diesel pick ups and my good buddy prefers Dodges with Cummins. Although he did prefer mine when we delivered 42000lbs of hay to his brother in law 200 miles up the road in PA. We switched off for fun. Chevy was better with max loading. Although his Dodge is now on my lift for brake mods ie stainless brake lines, ATE Gold fluid, brake ducting and backing plate mods.
As always try before you buy.
Browning still makes them and if you have to ask oh well. Another option is the Beretta 686 line. You can pick up a brand new one for under $1800.
Current model Winchester 101's are another great option.
If your wallet allows check out Caesar Guerini, Perazzi, or Krieghoff
For some folks a Kia works as transportation and for others a AM DBS fits the bill. Thank God we still have choices. I prefer Chevy 3500HD diesel pick ups and my good buddy prefers Dodges with Cummins. Although he did prefer mine when we delivered 42000lbs of hay to his brother in law 200 miles up the road in PA. We switched off for fun. Chevy was better with max loading. Although his Dodge is now on my lift for brake mods ie stainless brake lines, ATE Gold fluid, brake ducting and backing plate mods.
As always try before you buy.
oneounceload
member
NEW Superposeds start somewhere north of $15-$18 K - great guns and worth the money of you have it, but I would first go the Perazzi route and have it built to my specs at no extra cost..............
JohnM
Member
Oh man! The joys of a well built shotgun.
One time I lived in a town that had a gun shop supreme.
In the shotgun section they took orders for custom built guns.
All kinds of try-stocks, they would measure you up like a tailor getting ready to make you a custom tailored suit!
What a trip it was for us young guys to just go in there.
One time I lived in a town that had a gun shop supreme.
In the shotgun section they took orders for custom built guns.
All kinds of try-stocks, they would measure you up like a tailor getting ready to make you a custom tailored suit!
What a trip it was for us young guys to just go in there.
JeanM1945
Member
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your Weatherby Orion. I own the same shotgun and absolutely love it. I have a Briley choke on it. Improved Cylinder and hit the clay trap everytime.
No problem with it and I don't have to turn my head. I just look down the sights.
Sorry to hear about your Weatherby Orion. I own the same shotgun and absolutely love it. I have a Briley choke on it. Improved Cylinder and hit the clay trap everytime.
No problem with it and I don't have to turn my head. I just look down the sights.
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