Overheard in a gun shop today . . .

[Ted Bell]

Was browsing at my favorite gun shop today and I overheard a conversation between the owner and a customer. Customer sez he has a 7 mm mag and was wanting to trade it. Owner sez the 7mm mag is a piece of crap caliber and says customer is going to take a big hit on the value of his rifle as compared to the same rifle chambered in 300 win mag.

Being a rifle newbie I was wondering if the owner is full of crap? Is there a big difference in popularity/quality/etc. between the two calibers?

 

[Jim K]

Depending a bit on where you live, one can bring a bit more than the other, but I suspect the dealer was just low-balling the gun so he could get it cheap and make more money on it.

Jim

 

[cratz2]

I have no doubt that 300 Win Mags are easier to move than 7mm Rem Mags. Having said that, the owned is just doing what owners do... I have got very good deals on three ocassions where the shop owner/worker was trying to screw the seller and I upped the ante and bought the gun just outside of the shop.

 

[Stephen Ewing]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, since "overheard" opens up lots of possibilities: Are we sure which 7mm was being talked about? Granted, all the 7mm Mags I can think of offhand do a very nice job in terms of ballistics and are more than adequate for reaching out and touching almost anything in the lower 48, but some of them are nightmares to feed if you don't handload. The Firebird springs to mind, and the Weatherby 7mm is almost an orphan.

Just throwing out a thought.

Steve

 

[cratz2]

That's true... I was assuming that the Win Mag and Rem Mag were being discussed and that was never really made clear.

 

[rugerfreak]

I always thought that the 7mm was the number one selling caliber that's been magnumized----something to do with flat shooting and low recoil(relatively).

Go into that same shop with the exact same rifle --only chambered in .300---and I have a feeling you'll be hearing the same BS on how a 7 mag is superior.

 

[cratz2]

It's funny about the two most popular magnums... I own one and have owned another one. Not one of my friends that I know of owns a 7mm Rem Mag but most own a 300 Win Mag. On of my friend's uncles owns at least three 300 Win Mags including a very light custom job that is... a revelation to shoot.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Find a new gunshop. It's pretty evident that the owner is going to try to muzzleplug you in the future.

The 7mm Mag. gets a solid A from me. I personally wouldn't rate it as a great cartridge, but it certainly is good, and I wouldn't turn one down. It's also popular with knowledgable hunters, so the shop owner shouldn't have much trouble in reselling it.

It would be a good choice for a "single gun for the lower 48" battery. Flat shooting for long shots on western game, while with the right bullets more than powerful enough for moose and elk, and not overly powerful for eastern game.

 

[Kahr carrier]

Just call that Gun shop owner-SLIM SHADY.

 

[Art Eatman]

Aw, give the shop-owner some slack...

One of my own favorite lines when I have a gunshow table and some guy comes by with a gun is, "Hey! Did you just buy that beautiful treasure, or are you trying to sell that old piece of junk?"

, Art

 

[mtnbkr]

"Hey! Did you just buy that beautiful treasure, or are you trying to sell that old piece of junk?"

I like gun show dealers with a personality and a sense of humor. It makes me more likely to spend my money at their table (assuming they have something I want).

Chris

 

[El Tejon]

A gun dealer attempting to make money! This must stop! It's well-known rule that the gun business should be treated as a hobby and not a business. Report this man at once.

In the warehouse of things I don't get, the great rifle caliber debate is just another item. Unless you are stalking undead, mutant grizzly bears of the hairy-chested West, almost all centerfire rifle calibers have what it take to get the job done.

The platform, i.e. the rifle, is far more important than the projectile and, of course, the skill of the user trumps all. But, hey, who wants to train? It's no fun to realize how bad you are and you have to get up for class.

 

[El Rojo]

If I were to go into the firearms business, I would just make it an extra business deal. I would do it out of the home and just mainly sell guns to people I find around town for a 10% mark up. That way I don't have to have expensive business costs and I don't have to try to hustle customers. Just plain facts the best I can give em and honest dealing. My dad has a 7mm Mag and it is a great gun. I have killed pigs with it and many a coyote. Never had a problem.

 

[Mike Irwin]

There's a HUGE difference in attempting to make money honesty by dealing with a customer honestly, and then there's lying to a customer in an attempt to him out of every last penny.

As a customer, which would you rather do? Make a deal, or get screwed?

If you don't care how the shop owner makes his money, or how badly he treats his customers, come on by, lads, and let's make a deal.

Got anything you want to trade El Tejon? A mint Colt Peacemaker? You're a slackjawed yokel for buying such a worthless piece of crap, but to show my compassion and friendship for you, I'll give you $5 in trade toward this RG .38, one of the finest revolvers ever made.

My family has had a very nice niche in the rare and antiquarian book and paper trade for the last 20 years. We don't knowing our customers, because we want repeat customers, and more importantly, we want to be able to look them in the face, and ourselves in the mirror, a week down the road.

 

[El Tejon]

Mike, big difference between puffery and fraud. So this dealer doesn't think that the 7 mag will sell. What's wrong with the dealer offering $1 for the gun. O.K., take it to another dealer and check the price with him.

What's wrong with the dealer making money off Cledus Slackjaw? If both parties consent absent fraud, what's the rub? If Cledus later thinks he's been taken advantage of, he'll stop going there and tell his friends and neighbors. The market via competition will correct any outright gaming.

Ted, to answer your original question, there is a distinction but it is without difference. Something to use up space in the gun rags and debate at the gun shoppe or campfire (you'd rather talk about the office?).

 

[cratz2]

For one thing, I don't think you can run a 'gun shop' out of your house anymore. These days, I'm pretty sure you have to have a seperate business front with a seperate physical street address in order to get the license.

As for the dealer 'trying to make money', this is a Capitalist society and business folks can do whatever they wish to do. As long as they keep making money, I guess they're not doing anything too wrong. On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for selling a rifle for profit, then giving the guy a decent trade in and not lying to him when taking it back in towards another rifle that the dealer is going to make a profit on.

My favorite local shop does just that. He makes a profit on the first time the gun is sold. If you want to sell it back, you're going to take a hit, but he usually gives you close (within $50 or so) of what he's going to sell the trade for, if you're getting another new rifle.

 

[redneck2]

The REAL difference between the 7 and .300

lay 3 business cards on top of each other

or if you prefer and are exceptionally talented, stack 4 human hairs

anyway you add it up, it's .016. I sincerely doubt that anything hit with either caliber would know the difference

kinda like arguing if something is 6 or 1/2 a dozen

just gives manufacturers more things to build, buyers something to acquire, and writers fodder for the gun rags

 

[Jack19]

I was hagging with a local shop owner over the trade in of a SIG 220 one time.

He said to me, "This is a really nice gun, and it's going to be an even nicer gun right after you leave." In the end, he was fair.

 

[tex_n_cal]

None of the 7mm magnums are "a piece of crap" caliber, but if it were something like a 7mm Weatherby or 7mm STW, he might well have had one in the past, and had a hard time moving it. It's possible, from the dealer's viewpoint that he was making a truthful statement.

Now if he said the .300 mag had three times the killing power of the 7mm, that would be inexcusable BS.

 

[cratz2]

Not to get too far off topic, but comparing the 7mm Rem to the 300 Win, I am more of a fan of the 7mm, mostly because I'm not a fan of big recoil. I mostly have shot 150 Gr ammo out of my Winchester Laredo (heavy barrel, 'beanfield' rifle) and the recoil is not unpleasant. About the same as my much lighter weight 700 ADL Synthetic in 270. I'd be willing most that can shoot a heavy barrel 308 can shoot a 7mm Remington Magnum with little trouble. The 300 Winchester Magnum on the other hand has considerably more recoil, even in heavy barrel format. Not unbearable, but absolutely more than the 7mm.

Trajectory-wise, they are pretty similar at sane hunting distances. 300 yards or so, they are almost identical but America has a long fascination with that .308 caliber.

Plus, a 'real man' ain't gonna let no recoil stop 'im from using the biggest blaster available for all 10 rounds he shoots each year.

 

[Okiecruffler]

It's very possible that the owner just knows what his customers will buy and what they won't. When I was running a guitar shop, I used to give very low trade in on Gibsons, and higher trade on Peavy. I wasn't trying to screw anyone, but I knew my customers, and they weren't buying Gibsons. I would sit on those Gibson's for years while I could move a Peavy, Fender, or even a BC Rich in a few weeks. It can be very regional. Just because the Blue Book says it's worth one thing, doesn't mean it's worth that in my store.

 

[Freightman]

I work in a gunshop and our policy is to let the people see the Blue Book that way they can see we are not trying to cheat them.
Yesterday a guy came in and wanted to sell a 5mm Remington, he said his book said it was worth $350, well the new book we have said it was worth $150 at 98% which it wasn't. Well to make a long story short he became indignent and accused us of being a bunch of crooks in not real nice language.
The trouble with some folks is they believe that what they have is worth more than what it is actually worth but if you are trying to sell them something your product is not worth what the book says.
Most of the Gun shops here have closed there doors due to the attitude that I saw that in SGN or Gun List for X $. Well if we keep this up the anti gun folks will not have to take our guns we will by ourselves make it where we can't buy a gun.
WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Art Eatman]

I've noticed that a few folks here are sorta opinionated about certain brands of guns, and certain cartridges. I've also noted just a wee tad of what might be called (Horrors!) sarcasm.

Face it: There are some types of hunting rifles that are not popular in certain parts of the country, and there are also certain types of cartridges which aren't in demand.

A Browning semi-auto in 7mm Rem Mag is gonna stay on the shelf a long time, in South Jawgia. So will anything in .25-06 or .264. I sorta doubt many gunshops in the open-plains states sell many .35 Remingtons...

So a guy in a gunshop might well bumrap a 7mm Mag just on account of its being a poor seller, not because it's a bad cartridge to shoot...

Art