+p+ 9mm ammo

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Shadow7D hit it right on the nose. Regardless of the P rating, what bullet imparts the most damage on the target? I just thought a faster, heavier load would carry the most energy to the target. Assuming proper energy transfer and penetration of course.

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To the OP, I found some Win. Ranger 127gr +p+ at our local gun shows. Shopped different tables and found the cheapest was a little over $27/box out the door which isn't bad at all. I have 3 mags full of this for my 4" service XD9.

Bill
 
legion3 said:
Winchester just didn't invent some out of spec bullet and loading for the Black Talon/Ranger T 127 +P+.

That said some would argue the +P+ is simply a marketing gimmick.

However the 127 +P+ averages 1246 from a Glock 26 while most +P's are not as brisk.
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I haven't seen anyone doubt the pressure or velocity of the Ranger 127+P+. It's whether that pressure or velocity gains anything in terminal performance, over other lower pressured rounds available today. Any of the wound ballistics folks I'm acquainted with, would tell you no.

The 127 +P+ Ranger was introduced at a time when famous gunwriters with financial interests in ammunition companies, and books based on fiction, were touting hyper velocity rounds as being more certain of "one shot stops". Winchester, because of their wound ballistic expertise, was able to design a bullet that would still give adequate penetration at those hyper velocities, something other whiz bang rounds on the market at the time couldn't. So it enjoyed a certain popularity, as it met the needs of those rangemasters that read gun magazines for their research into wound ballistics, while still actually performing quite well. But other departments that adopted non +P 147 grain ammunition, such as those made by Winchester or Federal, had just as acceptable field performance. I don't think many agencies (out in the west anyway) adopted it, or if they did, still use it. Most of the larger agencies out here adopted instead the 147 grain 9mm, such as LAPD, LASD, SDPD, etc., and continue to use it for their folks that still carry 9.
 
Well I live out east and several still us it out here, and as I said some still use 115Grain ammo.
 
i was looking at the ballistics, and the 1250 fps 9mm load carried slightly more energy than the 990 fps .40, out to 50+ feet. and my house isn't that big. it's proving rather difficult to locate though.
 
I use the 127gn +p+ ranger load in my Browning HiPower and my Beretta 92FS because I have found it to be the most accurate load I have tried in either of those pistols.
 
it's proving rather difficult to locate though.
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If you don't live in California or one of the other behind enemy lines states...

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammunition/9mm-9x19

$24.95 a box isn't bd at all.

These guys are usually pretty good too but their price is kinda crazy high

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo

And finally

http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?ref=hotpig27&ct=59100&pd=249883&recview=21

This is the the best price and don't get hung up on the LE only statement...
 
The Winchester Ranger +P+ 9mm load will blow through level IIA ballistic vests like butter. The Agency I work for just switched from Hydra Shoks and we did some testing and were very suprised.
 
NATO or +P is the European standard for 9mm service pistols. It will not appreciably wear out a pistol DESIGNED for it and in fact may be NECESSARY to ensure reliable functioning in pistols of European design (Glocks, XDs, CZs, BHPs, etc., etc.).

My wifes G19 is loaded with Win Ranger "T" 127 +P+, it is very accurate, not too powerful, and she shoots it very well. For her sake, I want the 9mm ammo she loads to have every advantage possible. She also has quick access to an 870.

Didn't the FBI conclude in the infamous Miami shootout, that standard velocity 9mm HPs were inadequate?


M
 
Oh, have they changed their minds since then?

My comment was a response to an earlier post that said standard velocity was best.


M
 
Oh, have they changed their minds since then?

My comment was a response to an earlier post that said standard velocity was best.
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No it is that bullet technologies have advanced since 1986. The issue used to be you needed enough velocity to get penetration & proper expansion. With the improvements in the hollow point bullet designs offered by the major ammo companies this is not longer the issue it once was.

Slower larger 9mm bullets with more modern HP designs now expand reliability as others like the Rangers of the past. The Rangers are not bad SD rounds they are just not necessary to the same degree they used to be.
 
Sometimes the ammunition chooses the user. :) I have lucked into fairly good deals on small quantities of Ranger 127+P+ and Hydrashok 124+P+, and use both sparingly in my 9mm's for defense. I have some resonably strong guns, except for the Browning HP's, which most people recommend AGAINST +P+ use. I would like to find a good standard pressure 147 for the BHP's, as they seems to be very accurate with any 147gr load. If you have some preference in 147gr standard loads, please PM me.
 
wannasupra said:
Is it worth the added recoil/wear and tear on the weapon? Specifically in a 92FS, for self defense. I've read that the golden saber +p is a good round, but what's the best? I want something I can leave in the weapon for my wife to use "just in case" while I'm not home.

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YES to the ammo companies that load that stuff.
 
I don't think it's worth it, and I don't get the point. What is it you think +P or +P+ ammo is going to do that regular pressure loads won't do? Cartridges and guns were designed to work at a certain power and velocity range. Regular pressure loads will penetrate as far as you should reasonably expect from a handgun. If you think your 9mm isn't enough, get a .357 mag or .357 sig.

And no, being in the military doesn't make any difference as to what kind of rounds you are allowed to buy, because in your function in the military, you are only going to use military issued weapons and ammo. PERIOD. The laws in the state you live in, and the policies of your commander, determine if and how you are allowed to keep and bear arms.
 
I use it because it is as good, or superior, to any lesser velocity loads, and I got it for a good price. Since I won't be pounding my guns constantly with it, I do not see the harm. Like the old recommendations for S&W Model 19's, "Practice with .38's, and carry it with magnums." The same philosophy seems to works with guns that CAN handle the +P+ loads; just use the strong stuff for carry. If you don't agree, don't use it. I bought my +P+ ammo for less than any lower pressure premium ammo....it was for the police market, overrun/surplus, blown out by the manufacturers.
 
mljdeckard said:
I don't think it's worth it, and I don't get the point. What is it you think +P or +P+ ammo is going to do that regular pressure loads won't do? Cartridges and guns were designed to work at a certain power and velocity range. Regular pressure loads will penetrate as far as you should reasonably expect from a handgun. If you think your 9mm isn't enough, get a .357 mag or .357 sig.

And no, being in the military doesn't make any difference as to what kind of rounds you are allowed to buy, because in your function in the military, you are only going to use military issued weapons and ammo. PERIOD. The laws in the state you live in, and the policies of your commander, determine if and how you are allowed to keep and bear arms.
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As a matter of fact being in the military does make a difference in what ammo you can buy, at least it does to Winchester, which restricts its ranger line to military & police sales only! Of course thats not the law, its just company policy to deny "We The People" the same standards that they reserve for the state! :)
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
I use it because it is as good, or superior, to any lesser velocity loads, and I got it for a good price. Since I won't be pounding my guns constantly with it, I do not see the harm. Like the old recommendations for S&W Model 19's, "Practice with .38's, and carry it with magnums." The same philosophy seems to works with guns that CAN handle the +P+ loads; just use the strong stuff for carry. If you don't agree, don't use it. I bought my +P+ ammo for less than any lower pressure premium ammo....it was for the police market, overrun/surplus, blown out by the manufacturers.
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You might wish to latch onto some Winchester 147 gr RA9T for your BHP, in my estimation it equals the performance of 127 gr +P+ RA9TA at a fraction of the wear on your pistol...
 
It still doesn't matter if he's in the military. His commander isn't going to cut him an official memo to give him any special gun privileges. And there is no law preventing anyone from buying the Winchester premium ammo. Even if they PRETEND to restrict sales, you or I can find it and buy it if we want to.
 
You can find Ranger T ammo online. The distributors say it was surplus from an LEO order. I am a farmer and can get all I want at a good price.

Military will expanding bullets? I thought that was a no no...
 
Gunther said:
The Winchester Ranger +P+ 9mm load will blow through level IIA ballistic vests like butter. The Agency I work for just switched from Hydra Shoks and we did some testing and were very suprised.
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It will penetrate some vests, chiefly those using non woven ballistic materials. The level II vest my old agency issued years ago stopped it quite nicely.

If your agency is still using level IIA vests in 2011, you have more to be concerned about than ammo selection.
 
mljdeckard said:
It still doesn't matter if he's in the military. His commander isn't going to cut him an official memo to give him any special gun privileges. And there is no law preventing anyone from buying the Winchester premium ammo. Even if they PRETEND to restrict sales, you or I can find it and buy it if we want to.
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iirc, Winchester doesn't require a letter for ammunition purchases, their distributors are free to sell it on an ID card only.

But as you said, the ammo is for sale all over the place anyway. He may find it somewhat more inexpensively with an ID though.
 
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