Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
Thread Veer and “Expertiseâ€
twolf - -
This topic has strayed from Sir Galahad’s original question. He asked about use of +P ammo in his Baby Eagle. Your statements about legal problems with use of certain ammo have raised some questions in my mind. Please be advised that this is a request for clarification and NOT a personal attack.
Maybe you have some unusual laws in Campbell County, or in all of Virginia. Can you provide links to cites wherein private individuals are prohibited from use of Plus-P ammunition? Some Attorney General’s opinion that possession or use is prima facie evidence of intent to commit some crime? Perhaps you can furnish a couple of cases where evidence was taken in court pertaining to ammo-as-proof-of-an-evil-mind.
What you aver may well be true for where you live, but you present it as a global truth. I am familiar with the laws in Texas and a couple of other states regarding firearms use by legally armed private citizens.
I know of ONE agency in my area which issues Cor Bon ammunition. My own issues Gold Dot HPs. As a hobby shooter and firearms enthusiast as well as a career peace officer, I pay a lot of attention to arms and ammunition. As most drivers are more interested in basic transportation than in automotive perfection, most cops consider their side arms and ammo merely a part of their gear. They use their radios and computers but are not communications or cyber techs. They can use fire control gear but are by no means firefighters. They have basic first aid training but - - Well, you get the idea. They must demonstrate proficiency in the use of all these things, but are not necessarily experts in any particular field.
Perhaps you have credentials way beyond what you display. Do corrections officers in Virginia carry firearms? Our jailers are given only very basic firearms training and qualifications—Nothing like what the licensed peace officers get --- and most of the latter are far from authorities. Detentions personnel here are armed on duty only under extraordinary circumstances. I am friends with number of licensed jailers, so no disrespect is intended, but you mention your C.O. status as if this gives you standing in this ammo discussion, so I’m curious.
There have been many threads on the boards concerning firearms dealers’ “gun savvy.†Most FFL dealers have a basic knowledge of guns but are NOT ballistics experts. They stock what ammo sells and order what is requested. A dealer’s personal interest in firearms is apt to run to bench rest rifles, shotguns, cowboy action shooting, or varminting or deer hunting. They may read the “New Product Releases†on handgun ammo, maybe not. The dealers I know who carry pistols generally rely on a customer’s suggestions, or the salesmen’s samples.
Most BATFE guys who go to the shops are intent on inspecting records and seldom take time to discuss their preferences in ammo. These are (should be
) busy people. It would make little difference—Federal Agents are more restricted in what they carry than the locals, and are generally uninterested in what you or I or the legal pistol packers prefer. The records compliance inspectors probably haven’t handled a machine gun or destructive device since they left training.
I am a certified Texas Concealed Handgun License Instructor, and we are required to attend regular refresher courses conducted by the state. The ONLY suggestions made to instructors concerning ammunition: The licensee who doesn’t practice often may be more proficient using .38s in their .357s. Students should be encouraged to test their intended carry ammo for function in their guns. Nothing, ZERO, against hollow point bullets or +P ammo.
If you can provide a statewide or regional survey of LE issue ammo, it would be interesting. It would NOT indicate a nationwide truism.
In my area, a private citizen defending self, family or home will not be “burned†for use of certain ammo. Was it a shooting justified by the circumstances?-- is what counts. While it is usually preferable to avoid shooting people, I think it interesting that (Texas) law has recently been clarified to state that there is NO DUTY TO RETREAT in case of a violent home invasion. A quite recent local case resulted in the householder slaying one robber and seriously wounding another. He was interviewed and a statement taken, but he was not arrested or charged. Local police and prosecutors figure the responsibility lies with the surviving robber. He is up for aggravated robbery, a first degree felony, and may well be charged with Homicide, a death resulting from his participation in a felony.
I eagerly await your replies concerning the legal references.
Best,
Johnny
twolf - -
This topic has strayed from Sir Galahad’s original question. He asked about use of +P ammo in his Baby Eagle. Your statements about legal problems with use of certain ammo have raised some questions in my mind. Please be advised that this is a request for clarification and NOT a personal attack.
Maybe you have some unusual laws in Campbell County, or in all of Virginia. Can you provide links to cites wherein private individuals are prohibited from use of Plus-P ammunition? Some Attorney General’s opinion that possession or use is prima facie evidence of intent to commit some crime? Perhaps you can furnish a couple of cases where evidence was taken in court pertaining to ammo-as-proof-of-an-evil-mind.
What you aver may well be true for where you live, but you present it as a global truth. I am familiar with the laws in Texas and a couple of other states regarding firearms use by legally armed private citizens.
I know of ONE agency in my area which issues Cor Bon ammunition. My own issues Gold Dot HPs. As a hobby shooter and firearms enthusiast as well as a career peace officer, I pay a lot of attention to arms and ammunition. As most drivers are more interested in basic transportation than in automotive perfection, most cops consider their side arms and ammo merely a part of their gear. They use their radios and computers but are not communications or cyber techs. They can use fire control gear but are by no means firefighters. They have basic first aid training but - - Well, you get the idea. They must demonstrate proficiency in the use of all these things, but are not necessarily experts in any particular field.
Perhaps you have credentials way beyond what you display. Do corrections officers in Virginia carry firearms? Our jailers are given only very basic firearms training and qualifications—Nothing like what the licensed peace officers get --- and most of the latter are far from authorities. Detentions personnel here are armed on duty only under extraordinary circumstances. I am friends with number of licensed jailers, so no disrespect is intended, but you mention your C.O. status as if this gives you standing in this ammo discussion, so I’m curious.
There have been many threads on the boards concerning firearms dealers’ “gun savvy.†Most FFL dealers have a basic knowledge of guns but are NOT ballistics experts. They stock what ammo sells and order what is requested. A dealer’s personal interest in firearms is apt to run to bench rest rifles, shotguns, cowboy action shooting, or varminting or deer hunting. They may read the “New Product Releases†on handgun ammo, maybe not. The dealers I know who carry pistols generally rely on a customer’s suggestions, or the salesmen’s samples.
Most BATFE guys who go to the shops are intent on inspecting records and seldom take time to discuss their preferences in ammo. These are (should be
) busy people. It would make little difference—Federal Agents are more restricted in what they carry than the locals, and are generally uninterested in what you or I or the legal pistol packers prefer. The records compliance inspectors probably haven’t handled a machine gun or destructive device since they left training.I am a certified Texas Concealed Handgun License Instructor, and we are required to attend regular refresher courses conducted by the state. The ONLY suggestions made to instructors concerning ammunition: The licensee who doesn’t practice often may be more proficient using .38s in their .357s. Students should be encouraged to test their intended carry ammo for function in their guns. Nothing, ZERO, against hollow point bullets or +P ammo.
If you can provide a statewide or regional survey of LE issue ammo, it would be interesting. It would NOT indicate a nationwide truism.
In my area, a private citizen defending self, family or home will not be “burned†for use of certain ammo. Was it a shooting justified by the circumstances?-- is what counts. While it is usually preferable to avoid shooting people, I think it interesting that (Texas) law has recently been clarified to state that there is NO DUTY TO RETREAT in case of a violent home invasion. A quite recent local case resulted in the householder slaying one robber and seriously wounding another. He was interviewed and a statement taken, but he was not arrested or charged. Local police and prosecutors figure the responsibility lies with the surviving robber. He is up for aggravated robbery, a first degree felony, and may well be charged with Homicide, a death resulting from his participation in a felony.
I eagerly await your replies concerning the legal references.
Best,
Johnny
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anymore. This is the last post I will do on this topic. Let the moderators say whatever the