Prof
Member
Basic question: is all +P ammo marked "+P"? I recently purchased an older Sig 220 and want to avoid firing +P ammo in it but wasn't sure if all +P ammo has to be marked as such. Thanks!
+P Ammo Question
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tbeb
Member
That is a good question. I'm not sure of the answer. I do know that every box of factory new .38 special +P that I've purchased was identified as such on the box and on every case.
JohnK
Member
I'd have to go check, but I don't think any of the Corbon +P ammo I've bought was marked +P on the cases, just on the box.
Prof
Member
You raise a good point, John. I was just thinking about markings on the box when I posted the thread, but it seems the cases should be similarly marked since ammo is sometimes loose and not in the box and, therefore, needs to be identifyable as +P.
JohnK
Member
One other thing that may ease your mind, I have an older Sig 220, made in W. Germany, sharp hammer spur etc and haven't had any problems with firing +P Corbon ammo in it, or some un-intentionally warm handloads back when I was learning how to do it. I have read some reports of frame cracking in the older models, but I wouldn't worry to much about shooting an occational +P load.
Prof
Member
Thanks. I had planned to use some mild practice ammo 95% of the time but wanted some good carry ammo and much of what I've seen recommeded was +P. I would only put some of the carry ammo through it once in a great while.
Prof
Member
Thanks, JohnKSa. I don't reload and don't shoot other people's so I'm okay there. 
And I really like this Sig and will only feed it good quality USA-made ammo!
And I really like this Sig and will only feed it good quality USA-made ammo!Jim March
Member
+P is supposed to be only 10% over SAAMI spec max.
The exception is 45LC+P - this can be over double SAAMI and must be dealt with carefully (Ruger, Center Contender, Dan Wesson large frame, Colt Anaconda or 454Casull guns ONLY).
The exception is 45LC+P - this can be over double SAAMI and must be dealt with carefully (Ruger, Center Contender, Dan Wesson large frame, Colt Anaconda or 454Casull guns ONLY).
BluesBear
member
.45LC+P???
I thought 9mm+P, .38 Special+P and .45acp+P were the only calibers that had actual SAAMI ratings? Even the .38 Super+P is only +P when compared to .38acp.
Anything else called +P or +P+ should either be suspected of marketing hype or dangerous practices.
I thought 9mm+P, .38 Special+P and .45acp+P were the only calibers that had actual SAAMI ratings? Even the .38 Super+P is only +P when compared to .38acp.
Anything else called +P or +P+ should either be suspected of marketing hype or dangerous practices.
Jim March
Member
".45LC+P" happened when Ruger first built 45LC SAs on a 44Mag frame around 1973 - and gave the frame/cylinder the same heat-treat AND did the same hand/ratchet/innards. S&W doesn't do this; their 45LC N-Frames are weaker than their 44Mags. (Colt Anacondas have the same heat-treat between both calibers, ditto Dan Wesson.)
45LC is classically able to deal with about 15,000psi (in older guns) and modern guns can run up to 20,000 "without trying hard" (more or less anything made in the latter half of the 20th century with a solid frame). That's why you can run Cor-Bon's 200grain JHP @ 1,100fps even in an Italian SAA clone...although not a steady diet.
The Rugers can be pushed to 35,000psi and loads that will kick the rumps of most 44Mags. Bufallo Bore sells a 325grain @ 1,300+ and if you stick this in anything of lesser strength it'll grenade. Ruger DAs (RedHawks/SuperRedHawks) are as strong as the SAs.
Everybody who deals with the 45LC knows this, and the various packagings are quite clear.
45LC is classically able to deal with about 15,000psi (in older guns) and modern guns can run up to 20,000 "without trying hard" (more or less anything made in the latter half of the 20th century with a solid frame). That's why you can run Cor-Bon's 200grain JHP @ 1,100fps even in an Italian SAA clone...although not a steady diet.
The Rugers can be pushed to 35,000psi and loads that will kick the rumps of most 44Mags. Bufallo Bore sells a 325grain @ 1,300+ and if you stick this in anything of lesser strength it'll grenade. Ruger DAs (RedHawks/SuperRedHawks) are as strong as the SAs.
Everybody who deals with the 45LC knows this, and the various packagings are quite clear.
BluesBear
member
I well remember when the major loading manuals came out with special chapters for .45 Colt "Ruger/Contender Only" loads. The point I was trying to make is that there is no SAAMI standards for .45Colt+P and that I know of no company using .45 Colt brass with a +P on the headstamp.
Cor-Bon will tell you that their loads are completely safe in post-war S&W revolvers. I know of people who have safely fired them in late production Colt Single Action Army revolvers. Will they eventually shake a Colt SAA to death? Quite possible. But it won't become a hand grenade.
Now while there may be no legal obligation for an ammo company to adhere to SAAMI specifications most at least stay within reasonable range.
Because sooner or later someone is going to take one of these Wooly Mammoth loads and drop it into an Italian hinged frame Schoield replica.
Can you imagine the legal ramifications if that revolver goes ka-boom?
That's why I store all of my factory ammo in it's original boxes and I don't use factory boxes for warm or hot handloads. And that's why I caution people about using unknown ammo especially if it appears to be a reload.
Reputable ammunition manufactures perform proper testing procedures to ensure the safest product possible. You good buddy, Billy Joe-Bob Thistlethwaite III over at the range, probably does not.
On another note;
I was told back in the 1980s, by a S&W rep, that all N-size frames were made the same. Frames were produced in batches and stored for future use. There was no way to tell which frame would end up as which model.
Now I concede that a S&W in .45 Colt will be somewhat weaker than a .44 Magnum because the cylinder walls are thinner. But the frame should be just as strong.
I remember seeing Model 25-2 frames overstamped Model 29-2 during the .44 magnum shortage of the late 1970s.
Cor-Bon will tell you that their loads are completely safe in post-war S&W revolvers. I know of people who have safely fired them in late production Colt Single Action Army revolvers. Will they eventually shake a Colt SAA to death? Quite possible. But it won't become a hand grenade.
Now while there may be no legal obligation for an ammo company to adhere to SAAMI specifications most at least stay within reasonable range.
Because sooner or later someone is going to take one of these Wooly Mammoth loads and drop it into an Italian hinged frame Schoield replica.
Can you imagine the legal ramifications if that revolver goes ka-boom?
That's why I store all of my factory ammo in it's original boxes and I don't use factory boxes for warm or hot handloads. And that's why I caution people about using unknown ammo especially if it appears to be a reload.
Reputable ammunition manufactures perform proper testing procedures to ensure the safest product possible. You good buddy, Billy Joe-Bob Thistlethwaite III over at the range, probably does not.
On another note;
I was told back in the 1980s, by a S&W rep, that all N-size frames were made the same. Frames were produced in batches and stored for future use. There was no way to tell which frame would end up as which model.
Now I concede that a S&W in .45 Colt will be somewhat weaker than a .44 Magnum because the cylinder walls are thinner. But the frame should be just as strong.
I remember seeing Model 25-2 frames overstamped Model 29-2 during the .44 magnum shortage of the late 1970s.
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