P32 balistc performance

[40jjb]

A Lot of people have taken a lot of there time to test this little cal. shooting through diferent media like Balistic jel., water bottles, Phone books ect. I my self did the phone book test, Have some one use as I have just for Kicks, a Pack of Pork ribbs tide in front in this same order to a 1 pack of porks heart, then a pork shoulder ending with a 500 page phone book. Use youre kel Tec P32 with FMJ Fiocchis 71 gr. you will be impress it goes through all layers finishing in page 239 of the phone book. Then try the same with a P11 using FMJ 115 gr. the results are allmost and enfacise on allmost the same. Then whey people talk that the 32 acp is bare min. for self defence? granted not shooting through car doors or heavy media.

 

[Claude Clay]

i may be small but i remember
mine & my p3at are walk the dog ( errand) guns. for when you gotta have something yet arnt dressed for concealed carry. i have both in wallet style holsters and accuracy, very important especially when you dont have power, is very good. 2" groups at 21 feet. i have also tested like you have and found penetration to be supprisingly good. if i needed to use them, i would (and have). so yes, they do 'work'

 

[40jjb]

P32 test

Any feed back from any body??????

 

[Soybomb]

When most people talk about a "minimum" for self defense they're talking about a round that can both penetrate a predetermined distance and still offer expansion to make a larger wound. The most popular standards put this at 9mm or maybe .38 special. If you've found a fmj that feeds reliably in your .32 I think you're making the best of it and it will beat harsh words and a pointed stick.

 

[tblt]

I think KEl-tec only recamends FMJ ammo

 

[denfoote]

I carry mine with 29 rounds: 1 in the tube, mag in the well, and three spares!!

 

[CWL]

the .32 ACP is a compromise round, you should only carry it if you have no larger caliber option. Every modern .32 caliber gun on the market has an extremely short barrel, so you won't get any velocity advantages either.

Because of this, if you still want to carry .32ACP for SD, go with FMJ because you will want penetration thru clothing and bones. That tiny little 'pill' isn't going to do anything amazing like mushroom or break apart, it'll just poke a tiny hole into the target. Unless you destroy the brain or injure the spine, even mortal wounds like hitting the heart, arteries, blood-filled organs will take time to bleed-out. During this time, the BG is able to return the damage.

People and bodies don't perform like "pork ribbs" and phone books. Humans are denser, have more mass and wear clothing. They are also likely to be moving as well.

The purpose of handguns in SD situation is to incapacitate ASAP a BG to the point where he/she stops committing violence. There are enough documented cases of people surviving .357 magnum, 9mm, .40SW, .45ACP wounds, the .32ACP is terribly underpowered compared to them.

Once again, the .32ACP is a compromise caliber, it should be considered only if better options are unavailable.

 

[LightningJoe]

Handgun calibers are "compromise" calibers. If you want to incapacitate a bad guy, pack a rifle. If you shoot a bad guy with a handgun, only CNS hits will actually incapacitate him. Otherwise, even with mortal wounds, he'll have plenty of time to empty his magazine, reload, empty another magazine, do a crossword, and fill out a job application at Arby's.


32 Auto will accomplish the same results as 45 Auto the great majority of the time, perhaps all of the time. Handguns usually stop fights, but not by mechanically incapacitating the BG. The handgun works for psychological reasons.

 

[40jjb]

Incapasitation

Not even a shot gun will be 100/ 100 of the time Ive seen some one get shot with a 12 ga. shot gun in the ab. and put up a 7 mn. fight before going down.

 

[cpileri]

hot 32?

Maybe stack the odds a bit more in your favor by using the new hot-loaded 32 ACP from Buffalo Bore?
C-

 

[carguy]

I'm fairly new here so please take no offense at my compliment...it seems like we have some enlightened people here!

A handgun is a compromise...period. If you want to be safe carry a cop or drive a tank. Otherwise everything else is a compromise. The almighty 45 isn't going to stop every BG every time. Other forums and posters will tell you how wrong you are to carry a 32...shoot...depending on the weather, clothing etc, I carry a 25. It is better than nothing and not as good asa others but none of them, I repeat, none of the other calibers, large or small, are perfect. AS long as you are proficient with the handgun, feel comfortable with your choice. I can't think of anyone that would be willing to stand in front of any caliber handgun because "somebody" said it was underpowered.

 

[romma]

I carry Dynamit Nobel in my .32... The hottest ammo I've tried in it.

 

[mpmarty]

Well gee, let's see:
The Mossaad used .22 rimfire pistols and killed folks quite dead with them. Lets all just line up for some CCI Stingers and call it a day.

No, a .32 is not likely to be nearly as effective as a .45acp or 10mm in a gunfight and if you think it is you are delusional and should seek professional help from someone like the Firearms Academy in Seattle or Gunsite Ranch.

Remember, the 45acp was adopted by the military nearly a century ago to replace an underpowered .38cal weapon that had far more power than your .32 and I'm still not claiming the .45acp to be the best self defense round, just that it's the best for most of my CCW duties and to get anything better would entail a much larger harder to conceal weapon. Believe me, if I knew for a fact that I was going to be in a gunfight I'd bring something other than a handgun to it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I sometimes carry a P-32 and I don't feel under-gunned. I have a feeling most people who write the .32 Caliber is not large enough for SD haven't ever owned or shot a .32. This is what they here all over the NET so they repeat it not to sound different.

If you are looking for a HOT .32 auto round Fiocchi has a 60gr SJHP round which is rated at 1200 fps and 205 ft/lbs of energy. I know you won't get that velocity from a small P-32 but I got well over 900 fps when I ran that round through a chrono from my P-32. A 71gr (73gr from Fiocchi) FMJ round isn't a bad idea either.

 

[loop]

I always carry a P32. I got it because during the summer where I work in Bullhead City the temps frequently top 120 degrees. For business I wear lightweight khakis and a dress shirt when its hot. Nowhere to conceal a gun, but a P32 fits in a pocket holster. Better a mouse gun than no gun.
I've found the .32 so easy to carry I use it as a backup gun when I can wear clothes that provide more concealment capability.
I have no delusions about the power of the .32 round, but I also have no delusions about the more powerful rounds. Few, if any, hollow points will expand at under 930 fps. That means you pretty much have to go to a 9X19 or a .38 with a light (about 125 grain) bullet to have a reasonable expectation it might expand.
(I'd chrono those .32 loads that are advertised as over 1,000 fps; The manufacturer probably tested them out of a five-inch barrel or longer rather than a stubby P32 barrel. 1, I'll bet they are slower than you think; 2, I'd also bet there is a very large variation in actual velocity over a five-shot spread. [ie: ArchAngelCD's 1,200 fps round that clocked in at "well over 900 fps.] I've documented 200 fps variation over five rounds of factory loaded pistol ammo.)
Also 230-grain .45s aren't likely to expand. That doesn't prevent me from loading my .45s with HPs, but enhances my awareness that shot placement is far more important than what size or type of bullet you're shooting.
What it all comes down to is you need to practice with the gun and ammo you are going to shoot for self defense - practice, practice, practice.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Buffalo Bore has a new 32acp round that seems pretty interesting. It may be a viable alternative as a carry load. For now I carry Fiocchi 73gr with a Corbon JHP to top off the magazine. THere is no chance of rimlock and the hollowpoint is primarily to reduce the risk of ricochet in the event of a dog attack (or human for that matter) and I have the opportunity for a headshot.

 

[40jjb]

the 38

The 38 you are speeking of that the Military used, the slug if I'm not mistaken was traveling only 450 fps. in those days.mabe a little more not neer the velosities we are seen now.

 

[JERRY]

no one who has survived a gun fight later said that they wish they had a smaller gun.

carry the biggest badest caliber/gun combo you can realistically conceal.

if for some reason the p32 is it, then so be it, but dont cheat yourself if you can tuck away a more potent gun/caliber combo.

 

[DMK]

There are three things you want in a self defense round:

1) Most important is that you can shoot it accurately. A hit in the heart with a 32ACP beats a hit in the arm with a 357mag. Many folks wisely choose a 9mm CCW for this reason, because they can shoot it more accurately than say .40 or 45ACP.

2) Second in importance is penetration - you need to be able to reach vitals to incapacitate. 32ACP FMJ will penetrate to at least 12" in ballistic gel. An FMJ straight through the heart beats an HP that stopped short of hitting it.

3) Third in importance, IF you can still have adequate penetration, you want the round to expand, so as to imitate a larger bullet and do more tissue damage. The sharp edges of an expanded HP also "cookie cut" through tissue rather than pushing it aside as a round nose FMJ does. However, expansion usually limits penetration, because an expanding bullet acts as a "drag chute". 32ACP HP performs dismally in the penetration category when it expands. Expansion is linked to velocity. Below certain velocities HPs can't expand reliably, if at all.

A bullet that does not expand (FMJ) but penetrates 12-14", is much better than a bullet that expands but only pentrates 4" or so. However, a bullet that penetrates 12-14" and expands to the largest diameter stands a great chance of catching a vital organ and stopping an attack.

Then there are things like bullet weight and retained energy. The greater these are, the more likely that the bullet will keep going when something tries to stop it (like dense tissue, muscle, or bone).

And remember, an attacker is not going to stand, squared off like a cardboard tombstone target so you can hit COM straight on. You make need to make a hit at an angle, or through an arm.

 

[40jjb]

32acp

In an informal testing I found the fiocchis 32acp and the cor bon 32acp to be the best penetrators and Cor bon expands or fragments , been the best for this cal.

 

[gym]

Try the winchester silvertips, Larry Seacamp, built a gun around that round, it's soft enough to expand well. If you look at what a lot of vendors at the shows carry for thier own self protection, you will see many carry 32 seacamps. I know that the now make 380's in the same size, but the recoil is a bit much. Take a look on the seacamp website, those guys know just about everything there is to know about 32 calibers.

 

[JERRY]

first its SEECAMP, second, the STHP is now made of a harder material for better crimping than the old style because of bullet set back issues.....and out of a Seecamp they dont expand worth a hoot.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I don't think you want much expansion out of that round. I've also heard the profile of the new STHPs can give problems to the Seecamps as they were set up for the older ones. I'm sure they have addressed this by now though.

I recently switched to carrying all Fiocchi JHPs in my Keltec. I think the overall length is enough I don't have to worry about rimlock and its the most accurate load for my gun. They don't expand much but the do penetrate and I think they are a bit better than ball.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

60gr Fiocchi SJHP rounds are rated at 1200 fps with 205 ft/lbs of energy. That is in the .380 Auto range for power and even faster than most if not all .380 Auto rounds.

I know you won't get that velocity from a Kel-Tec P-32 but I did chrono them at ~920 fps. From what I've read they still don't expand much but penetrate over 12" in tests. When I carry the P-32 it's loaded with that hot Fiocchi ammo. A test done Here lists that 60gr Fiocchi round at 977 fps and a 16" penetration when shot from a P-32.