P38 questions

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"I had a late-period Manurhin-made P38 that was marvelous to look at but very innacurate."

I am going to add another question : As shooters go , generally speaking - is the P38 an accurate gun? My reference point for 9mm is the S&W 5906 ; it points easily and finds targets with ease. How is the P38 as a shooter , in terms of accuracy , handling , and fun in general?
 
The SA trigger is great. The DA trigger is heavier than Rosie O'Donnel after thanksgiving dinner.

My P-1 is accurate and fun, I like it.
 
Nope, but I would hope the SA would make up for the DA elephant pull trigger.

OP, my summary of the pistol is that they are accurate and reliable pistols. They are very reasonably priced for what you get, which is a unique, interesting, and fun gun. My pistol will shoot bullseyes in SA mode if I do my part. And they look cool, too!
 
My P38-marked Walther pistol was obtained from Interarms new in the mid-90s, with alloy frame & hex bolt.

It's decently accurate & even reliable with hollowpoints.
Denis
 
I've only been around a few, but they were OK, but maybe not as accurate as the Lugers I've owned or shot. You'll always find some POOR PERFORMING Milsurp weapons...

That said, I think the P-38s were a big step up for the Wehrmacht. I was led to believe that the P-38s were better weapons in the field, and more reliable than the Lugers they were meant to replace.
 
"I had a late-period Manurhin-made P38 that was marvelous to look at but very innacurate."

I am going to add another question : As shooters go , generally speaking - is the P38 an accurate gun? My reference point for 9mm is the S&W 5906 ; it points easily and finds targets with ease. How is the P38 as a shooter , in terms of accuracy , handling , and fun in general?


My P1 and postwar P38 both are accurate. And the sights were already zeroed well at 15 yards. I do have a 5906 and though it's a much better design than the old warhorses, accuracy is comparable. A good P38 can shoot well, I'm impressed with mine.

As Walt mentioned, I think a P08 Luger may be intrinsically more accurate than a P38 but its lousy sights quickly even things out (the P38 has much better sights).
 
I am confused. Most sources say the "Mod. P.38" guns were made in 1940 and they have all the indications of that era, including black checkered grips, not the brown ribbed grips shown, so the gun is at least partly a mismatch.

Good closeup pictures would help to try to resolve the issue.

The sad fact is that all German industry in WWII used slave labor; they were forced to, but there seems to have been little resistance, especially since the industrialists didn't have to pay the "guest workers", as they were euphemistically called early in the war.

Jim
 
I picked up a P1 that looked like new for range use. The P38 is a safe queen. I have put many rounds down the pipe on the P1 with no signs of abnormal wear. I never feed it , or my P5's +P ammo. I stick to 115 grain FMJ. I've always like the looks of the P38/P1 as well as the P5. The best of the P series pistols IMHO is the P5. It is reliable and very accurate. They tend to be expensive though. If you like the look of the P38 get yourself a clean late model P1 and make it your German shooter. :D
 
Just to clarify a few things, or at least my attempt, based on what I've learned.
The war two version, from any of the three makers, is marked 'P. 38' with a period after the 'P'.
This does not hold for the commercial & military marked Model HP of course.

Most post war alloy frame guns that are marked 'P 38".
Note the lack of a period after the 'P' on the slide.

The 'P 1' was the military designation of the P 38.
Same gun. It went through the same design changes noted below.

Fat slide.
This reinforcement change was instituted to address the issue of slides cracking from fatigue on the post-war made guns.

Here is a photo of a 1977 European commercial P 38 - (note lack of serial number on the frame) with the fat slide and reinforcement pin in the frame.

3935331.jpg

Notice the taller height of the slide opening on the left side. It is all the way up to the extractor. Also notice the grasping grooves on the slide go forward past the tip of the safety lever.
.
Compare these two features to that of the WWII gun photo from Post #25.
The WWII version and earlier post war slides did experience a very small percentage of slides that cracked on the left side.

So the 'fat slide' is, in essence, a 'tall slide'. Who knows how the name started, because the slides are the same width. Go figure.

The hexagonal pin was a design change to extend the service life of the frames. Walther, at the request of the German army, did retro-fit some earlier frames with the hexagonal pin for testing before the adoption of it as standard for the military on new guns.
The pin never became standard on commercial post war guns, although the fat slide did.

I would have no problem making a post war P 38 without the pin and fat slide my regular shooter.
Same with a WWII version, after having changed the recoil springs for new ones.

I would not recommend the hammer drop on a WWII because it puts undue stress on the square cut firing pin and could break it.
Post war guns use a round pin that is not interchangeable.

To answer the grip 'broken line' question.
Walthers original blueprints for the WWII redesigned grips per the Army request shows 5 broken lines
around the grip screw.

For some reason the blueprints never made to the guys at both Walthers in - house grip department or to their prime grip contractor AEG.
They made the grips with six broken lines from start to wars end.
Mauser emulated Walther with the six line break with their bakelite grips and also the later plastic ones.

Spreewerk - no e on the end - in northern Czechoslovakia, however, paid attention to the original drawings.
Or at least their grip contractor, who was named Julius Posselt, did.
All Spreewerk P.38s, other than the early guns that used Walther made grips, have the correct five broken lines.

Jim, The brown bakelite grips are consistent with a mid to late war commercial.
Walther continued to make commercial marked - banner and address - P. 38s throughout the war. The degree of finish mirrored the military version as the war progressed.
They were for sale in Germany and most were targeted for sales to military Officers, as the general staff had to provide their own.
At least that is my understanding.

JT
 
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JT-AR-MG42 - Nice detailed post.

Are you sure about the slide widths? I believe the 'fat slide' was introduced by Walther in about 1967. Maybe it was just an optical illusion, but when I laid my two slides side by side, I distinctly remember noting that the upgraded one was indeed physically thicker, or fatter, when viewed from above. I do not have my Walthers handy at the moment, or I would take an actual measurement.
 
Ouch il!
You are absolutely correct.
I did spend the last half hour sorting through to find a couple to measure and there is (1.19 versus 1.24) difference.:eek:

I could blame it on the house fire several months ago that took ALL my reference books and forced me to go from memory (like the rest of the post),
but I was flat wrong on the statement concerning slide width.

JT
 
JT -

You have so many Walther P1/P38's that it took you a half-hour to sort through them and find an example of each slide?

That is a collection I would like to see! Hope you, your family, and your firearms all survived the house fire intact. Your memory seems to be in pretty darn good shape. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

There is something about the P.38 and the postwar P38/P1 pistols that I really like. It is one of the few firearms I know just a bit more than the average guy about.
 
Thanks for the kind words il.
No one, including the fire personnel, was injured.
Safes protected the guns alright, just a few slightly warped grips from guns at the edge of the safe that was directly in the fire.
I will always be grateful to the F.D. for their quick response (neighbors called it in - no one was home) that saved the structure and neighboring properties.
I do not recommend the experience to anyone, ever.

Yeah, I do have a few. I'm actually finishing up re-building the display for this year's show.

Collected these in honor of my father who was 101.

display20102.jpg

Going from memory now,(not of what I have, but of the number of recognized variations)
42 of the 63 WWII variations and 8 of the 16 post war + the military and civilian .22 kits.

JT
 
Good God , JT, THAT is impressive. I am having flashbacks to when I was the littlest kid on the block begging the bigger guys to let me play baseball with them.

Spreewerk. No e on the end.

Thank you for the shared knowledge. CK
 
Interesting on the spelling of Spreewerk(e). I checked several German sources and they all had the "e" on the end, while a Norwegian writer is emphatic that there was no "e". The word itself means just what it sounds like in English, "work" or "factory". The English word usually is plural ("the U.S. Steel works in Pittsburgh...") and so is the German ("Mauser werke") when used for a company. The singular "werk" is usually used to indicate one factory of a company, as "XYZ GMBH, Werk Pirmasens" or "XYZ, Inc., Pirmasens factory"

So I am confused, but based on the predominance of the "e" spelling, I will stick with it.

All the best.

Jim
 
Thanks for the kind words il.
No one, including the fire personnel, was injured.
Safes protected the guns alright, just a few slightly warped grips from guns at the edge of the safe that was directly in the fire.
I will always be grateful to the F.D. for their quick response (neighbors called it in - no one was home) that saved the structure and neighboring properties.
I do not recommend the experience to anyone, ever.

Yeah, I do have a few. I'm actually finishing up re-building the display for this year's show.

Collected these in honor of my father who was 101.

display20102.jpg

Going from memory now,(not of what I have, but of the number of recognized variations)
42 of the 63 WWII variations and 8 of the 16 post war + the military and civilian .22 kits.

JT
Wshew!

Now I know what I will be seeing tonight when I lay my head on my pillow and close my eyes.

Thanks for sharing, JT.
 
Hey JT - The P38 you posted shows a #2 on the front sight. A unit which I am considering displays a #4 there. Would you , or anyone else , know the significance of these designations?
 
front sights are numbered for sight height and rear sights adjust for horizontal with four or five variations.

That's a new one for me. I have not heard about horizontal variations in the rear sights?

All the information I have found to date indicates the vertical is adjusted up or down by installing a different numbered (taller or shorter) front sight, while the windage (horizontal) adjustment is accomplished by drifting the front sight in its dovetail right or left.
 
I have learned something about P.38 and P1 sights and stand corrected.

The new to me information: The front sight dovetail does not really look wide enough to effectively drift it left or right. I have found three differently configured rear sights that are available to adjust the POI left or right as needed. The 'standard" unmarked rear sight has the notch centered. On an "L" marked rear sight the notch is offset to the right. On an "R" marked rear sight the notch is offset to the left.

This was a bit confusing to me at first, but it makes sense in a German sort of way. If your Walther is shooting to the right you will need an "R" marked rear sight to correct it (notch is offset to the left). If it is shooting to the left you'll need an "L" marked rear sight to correct it (notch is offset to the right).



One thing I had previously noticed that should be mentioned at this time is that these pistols come with two different styles of sights. The older P.38's I have seen have a narrow front sight and a U-shaped notch in the rear sight. The newer P1's have had a wider white dot marked front sight with a wide square notch rear.

Final Fun Fact: the German and English languages have many cognates. The rear sights may be marked with an "L" for "links/left" or they may be marked with an "R" for "rechts/right". Also, the safety is marked "S" for the "sicher/safe" position, and "F" for "feuer/fire"
 
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