Pakistani Milsurp 7.62 nato
- Thread starter thexrayboy
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Well, the Fulton's have NATO spec chambers too, but that spec. leaves some margin for the headspace. It's a range not a specific number.
So, if your rifle was made on the longer end of the headspace .308 might present a problem, but intentionally long headspaced chambers are rare and worn rifles should be checked.
In the end it's probably a good idea to measure each rifles headspace exactly to know for sure.
Nearly all NATO ammo made however fits into a go-no go of 1.629-1.630 which is actually the SAAMI spec for OAL.
Random sampling done by a few authors on the subject found the surplus ammo to actually be closer to the SAAMI spec than commercially loaded .308 as far as OAL consistency goes.
The consensus of the rifle experts, McKee, Kuhnhausen, etc is to keep rifles to 1.630 GO, 1.634 NO GO, 1.638 FIELD REJECT headspacing and you'll be OK with either ammo type and never hurt anything.
And of course all bets are off going the other direction; don't shoot NATO in a rifle chambered for .308.........
Maybe Zak Smith will chime in here if he reads this. I understand he's very up to date on the latest surrounding all this and uses lots of the surplus ammo.
ny32182
Member
The long running sticky in the ammo section of FALfiles basically says that as long as your .308 rifle is within spec, you can shoot either kind of ammo, and as long as your 7.62x51 rifle is in spec, you should also be able to shoot either kind of ammo. They say the fringe problems pop up when you have a borderline spec 7.62x51 gun (more headspace than optimal), and shoot hotter/thinner brass commercial .308 in it, and/or reload thinner .308 brass for use in a x51 chamber too many times.
The way I understand it, x51 surplus ammo runs at lower pressure, and uses thicker brass, and this therefore safe to fire in a wider variety of guns than .308 spec ammo.
The way I understand it, x51 surplus ammo runs at lower pressure, and uses thicker brass, and this therefore safe to fire in a wider variety of guns than .308 spec ammo.
Zak Smith
Member
I'm afraid I can't add much on the technicalities of the 7.62NATO vs. .308 WIN, except to point to some relevant web articles.
With regard to shooting milsurp through your accurized semi or bolt-gun.. I don't see a big problem with this, as long as the shortcomings are understood.
Most of my friends who shoot medium range (200-600) with 308 semis try to find one batch of milsurp ammo that works well in their rifle (both accuracy and reliability), and then lay in a pretty big supply of it.
Even in bolt-guns, using milsurp ammo can make sense for certain types of practice. Consider that a "good" batch of milsurp can put 20 rounds into 1" at 100 yards, throwing maybe 1 or 2 out of that group. That is certainly good enough for that "medium range" practice at 200-600 yards on practical-size targets (say 2-3 MOA). There is a lot that can be learned without "1/2 MOA" ammo.
In my AI-AW, I have a shot a ton of the Australian F4 surplus. I don't see any pressure problems and the recoil is milder than my normal 155 Scenar loads. It tracks my normal dope out to maybe 500 yards, but needs increased elevation from there on out. I don't recommend it for shooting beyond 600-700 because it has poor L.R. performance.
My shooting partner has shot a lot of the South African surplus in his Surgeon .308. At 100 yards, it shoots like this:
(I think he said he pulled the right-hand shot, and the high one had more recoil than the others.)
Hope this helps...
-z
With regard to shooting milsurp through your accurized semi or bolt-gun.. I don't see a big problem with this, as long as the shortcomings are understood.
Most of my friends who shoot medium range (200-600) with 308 semis try to find one batch of milsurp ammo that works well in their rifle (both accuracy and reliability), and then lay in a pretty big supply of it.
Even in bolt-guns, using milsurp ammo can make sense for certain types of practice. Consider that a "good" batch of milsurp can put 20 rounds into 1" at 100 yards, throwing maybe 1 or 2 out of that group. That is certainly good enough for that "medium range" practice at 200-600 yards on practical-size targets (say 2-3 MOA). There is a lot that can be learned without "1/2 MOA" ammo.
In my AI-AW, I have a shot a ton of the Australian F4 surplus. I don't see any pressure problems and the recoil is milder than my normal 155 Scenar loads. It tracks my normal dope out to maybe 500 yards, but needs increased elevation from there on out. I don't recommend it for shooting beyond 600-700 because it has poor L.R. performance.
My shooting partner has shot a lot of the South African surplus in his Surgeon .308. At 100 yards, it shoots like this:
(I think he said he pulled the right-hand shot, and the high one had more recoil than the others.)
Hope this helps...
-z
Thrust_Per_Squeeze
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Ahhh ignorance... Big difference between Khyber pass guns in the Vice videos, and the proper Paki arms industry which was set up by the British.
EmbarkChief
Member
Holy post resurection!
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