Paper or Plastic? The Veterans Party - A New Choice

[MajMikeW]

The following is a copy of an article I wrote on my blog.

Last month I attended the birth of the Bay County Florida Chapter of the Veterans Party of America. I attended the meeting to see what their purpose and intent was, and having reviewed their published information on the issues and having met the good people of the party, I found myself drawn into the group.

Most Americans, at least those who are political, have at least thought about how a third political party would affect the balance of power in the halls of Congress. Many of us, disgusted with what we see from both parties in Washington, have thought "if only there was something we could do". The more knowledgeable among us remember attempts at a third party, most recently we have had Ross Perot and Ralph Nader try this. Mr. Perot bailed out at the last minute, disappointing his faithful and giving the third party push a severe black-eye. Mr. Nader, although representing a good cause, just cannot generate the momentum required to be a viable political force. Many now think the very idea of a third party is impossible to achieve.

Perhaps they are right, but I believe in America, and believe her people want a real choice when they go to the polls. Right now it's "paper or plastic?", but both bags hold the same thing, a political party who has sold their ideals for power, and who's main objective is re-election, not representing the people who sent them to Washington to look out for their best interests. With over 30,000,000 Veterans in our nation, and counting their families, friends, and people of like-mindedness, we have a voter base to pull from of half the nations population, maybe more.

The Veterans Party is a fresh attempt to create a new political party who's message is that We The People must retake our government from it's corporate masters. Americans are a very generous people, but we send billions to other nations while we have children hungry right here, elderly without proper medical care, an overburdened underfunded educational system, and our Veterans benefits are slowly eroded by our Congress. We love and respect our troops currently serving our nation, and are tired of them having to beg for the tools to do their job, or face the added danger of completing the mission with the handicap of obsolete or ineffective equipment.

While we call ourselves the Veterans Party, we seek to include all Americans who see a need for change in this country, and who believe in the ideas we set forth regarding the issues. If you are a patriot of this great nation, and want to see her regain her honor and status in the world we welcome your participation in the party. If you are tired of our government paying more attention to what goes on in the privacy of our homes than in the myriad of real problems our country is facing then we welcome you to a new choice. If you believe our children and elderly deserve to be treated with the love and respect they deserve, then we welcome you into a new paradigm.

Government is meant to be the servant of the people, our Founding Fathers called it a 'necessary evil' and warned us to be always vigilant for the signs of abuse of power. Patrick Henry once said "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." I, for one, believe that time has come, and if you think the same way we welcome you to a party who wants to take back the power that rightfully belongs to We The People.

It won't be easy to establish and grow a new party from the ground up, in fact if we achieve the goal of a viable party with real political power we will have changed the very fabric of our nation. The Veterans Party isn't here because it's easy, but because it's necessary, just as our Veterans have always stood up for our nation in times of trouble they rise again now. All the patriots of this land can and should stand with us, man or woman, young or old, without regard for race, creed, religion, or lifestyle choice, together we can make this happen.

The VPA sees the 2nd Amendment as an individual right that the Bill of Rights iterates but does not grant, God has already done that. While we approve of measures to keep guns from criminals and to punish severely those who use guns in the commission of a crime, we oppose any infringement on the ability of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms, including concealed carry. We believe the two efforts are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The Veterans Party is a fresh attempt to create a new political party who's message is that We The People must retake our government from it's corporate masters.

We, the people need to learn what to do and not do with apostrophes before we attempt to enlighten other people.

 

[MajMikeW]

Isn't that special!

All those words and concepts and an apostrophe is the thing focused on, perhaps that is a example of how we can't see the forest for the trees. :banghead:

Let's see, the apostrophe after We was correct in the Declaration, but as a phrase "We The People" does not require such punctuation.

I agree the one in 'who's' was wrong, it should be 'whose', thank you so much for your grammatical expertise.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

MajMikeW,

You used the apostrophe wrong in the word "it's" also.

"It's" is a contraction for "it is", which is not what you meant.

The word you meant to use is "its", with no apostrophe. "Its" is a possessive pronoun for a genderless entity, such as a political party. "His" would be the male counterpart, and "her" would be its female counterpart.

I have some questions though. Your blog makes several comments that lead me to believe your party would want to increase government welfare programs to certain people. Is social welfare a big part of your party's platform?

Also, there seems to be a disdain for corporations and free enterprise in some of your comments.

You say education is underfunded, but I do not think that funding is our problem. We spend a huge amount of money on education.

You mention children going hungry in this country, but I don't think that is happening either, except in cases of parent neglect. Certainly we have plenty of welfare programs to keep children from going hungry. I just don't think you have your facts straight.

Finally, if you think Nader represents a "good cause" then you must be thoroughly opposite of me on the political spectrum. Based on the limited info you posted, it sounds like this party is trying to push a socialist agenda.

 

[All-Around-Shooter]

Mr. Nader, although representing a good cause

Ralph Nader? A good cause? Are you kidding?

The Veterans Party is a fresh attempt to create a new political party who's message is that We The People must retake our government from it's corporate masters. Americans are a very generous people, but we send billions to other nations while we have children hungry right here, elderly without proper medical care, an overburdened underfunded educational system, and our Veterans benefits are slowly eroded by our Congress

Another attack on those evil corporations, providing jobs, goods, and services
to all of us. Would you prefer european style socialism? Throw money at the
problems in government run schools? A government answer to health care and poverty? It doesn't work. The third party supporter only succeeds in one thing, draining votes from the party that is similar, and getting the other party
elected.As in Ross Perot in 1992, and Ralph Nader in 2000

 

[Justin]

Tough crowd.

Mr. Nader, although representing a good cause

You lost me right here.

I think I'll stick with libertarians, thank you very much.

 

[MajMikeW]

Clarification

1. I am not sure where social welfare came from that, so you may have to be more specific. We do want the govt to live up to the promises made to our Veterans and to see that our children's education quits falling behind the rest of the developed world.

2. I have a Bachelors and Masters degee in Business Admin, and believe in free enterprise. That said, situations like Enron and WorldCom have got to be addressed. Also, I do believe that our govt has become too beholden to their corporate backers, no matter which party is in office. Corporations are legal entities in our nation, but their disproportionate influence on our elected leaders has got to stop.

3. I think that the money currently spent on education needs to be better allocated, and that we probably need more funding as well. Our national party website discusses cost-effective ways to do this.

4. Children and adults go hungry in this country every day, and not merely due to neglect. The facts are very clear on this, like it or not. I can't speak for the big cities, but in the Mississippi Delta some folks still use outhouses, and their children depend on the schools for their daily meals.

5. I think Mr. Nader's general ideas are good, environmental conservation is more and more vital each year. That's what I meant, he just takes the ideas too far.

6. I don't think corporations are evil, but their purpose is to maximize shareholder wealth and that does not always mean good things for society. We need to encourage corporations to stay in the US, to be scrupulously honest in their bookkeeping, and to be a good member of society.

Socialism is in no way part of our party, but there are going to have be solutions found for the problems discussed above, and those solutions may involve the govt. I think Mr. Nader goes too far, but that our current national environmental policies are not going to cut it long term. We have to balance free enterprise with the future we will leave to our kids.

I used to be as strict a Libertarian as ya'll seem to be, but the complexities of the problems we face makes unbendable positions hard to defend. But, I too have a few issues on which I don't compromise the most relevant of which is the 2nd Amendment. If our nation is to remain one nation, we must pick and choose the issues for which we will fall on our sword, every issue can't be a struggle to the bitter end.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Why should the federal government be involved in education at all?

Why are the children you talk about going hungry? There are already government programs in place to prevent that.

 

[Chris Rhines]

If our nation is to remain one nation,...

I'm less and less convinced that this is a good idea.

The Veteran's Party doesn't seem to offer me anything that the LP doesn't.

- Chris

 

[Russ]

Abraham Lincoln was a third party candidate. He is deified now but all in all he was a really a ruthless politciian. Tha being said, I'm glad he lived and did what he did.

At this point in time, I think the 3rd party option is a joke. Vote LP or the Yellow Pig party, you have no prayer anytime soon. It can happen based on history. I just don't see it unless there is a major political or financial catastrohe. (I wish I had spell cecker on this). Anyway, do what your consceince tells you. If you don't hurt anyone, I think you should follow your beleifs. Once you try to hurt people , to impose your will, you lost me.

Good luck to you. Both major political parties have major faults. However, at this time I wll vote Republican because my reps, or potential reps, believe in the 2A. Th Dems are useless money grabbing freedom limiting Pigs. Thats my 2 cents. It was free to you so take it as you will.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The facts are very clear on this, like it or not. I can't speak for the big cities, but in the Mississippi Delta some folks still use outhouses, and their children depend on the schools for their daily meals.

There's nothing wrong with outhouses. My personal preference is for indoor plumbing, but people have used other facilities for centuries without harm. Kids who don't get three squares a day at home almost invariably have parents with neither education nor ambition. That's sad; that's also, however, not my responsibility. Taking from those who support themselves to give to those who don't is theft.

I think I'll stick with libertarians, thank you very much.

Me, too.

 

[MajMikeW]

Answers

The question about why the Federal govt should be involved in education is a good one. Why not leave it to the states? I guess the reason harks back to the Civil Rights years and having to use Federal troops to integrate schools.

I think there should be an overall set of standards for schools, and testing to see that we meet them, but that could be done by an NGO.

What can the Vet Party offer that the Libertarian Party can't? Good question. I think basically it comes down to leadership/membership, IF our party grows as we hope, we will have some of our nations greatest leaders in our ranks, and with 30M vets in America, if we get them and their families into the party (big goal I admit) we will have a big chunk of our population.

I was Libertarian before joining this, and still like the party, I just think our nations demographics call for a little more govt than they want, even though it will be way less than we have now.

Perhaps I am simply biased due to being a Veteran and living in an area with a huge Veteran population, but I just think we need a completely new party if we are going to make it work, not a third party who has been around for a while and virtually stopped growing.

Personally I think we should make the major metropolitan areas independent city-states, like in the old days. This would allow them to be as socialist as they want to be but allow the rest of us to continue living as traditional Americans. Include the Peoples Republic of California, The Southern Florida Banana Republic and the BOSNYWASH Union of Socialist Republics and the rest of us could get along really well.

 

[Justin]

The question about why the Federal govt should be involved in education is a good one. Why not leave it to the states? I guess the reason harks back to the Civil Rights years and having to use Federal troops to integrate schools.

Why should education be left to the states? Privately run schools regularly outperform the abysmally mismanaged public school systems.

On top of that, homeschoolers have gotten to the point where it is practically expected that their SAT and ACT test scores will dominate over those of public school students.

 

[DRZinn]

Privately run schools regularly outperform the abysmally mismanaged public school systems.

And for significantly less money per student.

 

[dustind]

We need to encourage corporations to stay in the US, to be scrupulously honest in their bookkeeping, and to be a good member of society.

How exactly? Unless you mean lowering regulations and making it cheaper to employ people I doubt that will happen. I also think any plan to try and make corporations to be "good to society" will backfire, but I guess that statement is open to lots of interpretation.

As for Mr. Lincoln: He suspended parts of the constitution and locked up news reporters that did not agree with him. There where better ways to end slavery that did not involve creating a civil war.

As an executive for the MN state LP party my advice to you guys would be to get involved in every local event and protest that you can to get your name out there. The LP and FSP has done both and it has really paid off, we are helping causes that we believe in anyway, and helping to create activists and members of our organizations.

I also love the idea of separate laws cities and rural areas. Minnesota has done that for hunting and off road vehicles and it has really helped keep both sides happy.

 

[Jammer Six]

The VPA sees the 2nd Amendment as an individual right that the Bill of Rights iterates but does not grant, God has already done that.

Atheist, then, don't believe in the authority that your party holds as higher than the constitution, then, right?

Veterans who are atheist are, therefore, better served by the Libertarian party, is that so?

 

[beerslurpy]

There is no harm in having Yet Another Third Party, especially one that sounds respectable and patriotic. If they can preach libertarian values effectively enough that people start to get upset that government is behaving as expected, then we will see real change, third party or not.

Even the current "two parties" are really an amalgamation of people from very different ends of the political spectrum. Look at the huge range of political views between Ron Paul and Arnie the Governator. Look at the difference between Kennedy and Zell Miller. Its not quite as two-party as most people want to beleive. The parties constantly reshape themselves to stay relevant. If libertarian views become widely held, libertarians will abound in either the republican or democratic parties.

 

[MajMikeW]

Jammer 6

J6

I would say to the atheists that the right to self-defense is the most basic 'natural' right, if they prefer that to God-given. Every creature has the right to survive, to defend their existence, regardless of whether they attribute their existence to a Creator or simply to nature.

MajMike

 

[Jammer Six]

I appreciate the response, but I was pointing out that the atheist patriot recognizes the constitution, and your party recognizes an authority higher than the consitution that atheists don't believe exist.

If your party beliefs are compatable with those of an atheist, there would be no reason to phrase them in a way that puts a god between you and atheist patriots.

It's the same issue as "In God We Trust" on the money- if you hold the same political views as the atheist patriot holds, there is no reason to mention a god, and no reason to maintain that these rights come from a god.

That you do so indicates that there is, in fact, a substantial difference between your party's political views and those of an atheist patriot.

An atheist patriot, therefore, would be better served by the Libertarian party.

 

[MajMikeW]

Atheist's chosen party

J6

Maybe you are right, but I don't see the Libertarian party as trying to remove "In God We Trust" from our money, and as with pretty much all parties here in the US believers will outnumber non-believers a good bit even there.

I respect your right (or whoever's) to believe or disbelieve as you wish, but I also believe this nation was created by men inspired of God to provide a sanctuary of freedom for His Gospel to be spread about the Earth. The Constitution, BoR, Dec. of Ind., etc. are documents inspired by God to serve as the keystones of a Christian nation. These are my personal beliefs.

As far as the Vet Party goes, the only mention of religion I have seen so far is that we say the Pledge of Allegiance using the 'under God' provision. I must admit when I delineated the position of the 2nd Amendment I used 'God-given' myself, instead of 'natural' right. To me the two are inseparable, and that is as it should be. The only mention of religion I have seen on the VPA site is just that those issues should be dealt with in church, which I believe to be too simplistic not to be addressed further in the future.

The more I think about it the more I believe you are right, because if me simply saying a right is "God-given" offends you then that may just be a gulf that cannot be crossed. I can no more not acknowledge the hand of God in all things than I can vote communist, Truth is Truth

MajMike

 

[Werewolf]

1. I am not sure where social welfare came from that, so you may have to be more specific. We do want the govt to live up to the promises made to our Veterans and to see that our children's education quits falling behind the rest of the developed world.

The problem with the US education system is not a lack of money but one of priorities. Too many administrators and not enough teachers. Curriculums that provide too little instruction in the fundamentals like the 3 R's, history, geography etc and instead teaches things like crochet, photography, sandbox and advanced sandbox. There is no accountability among students and no discipline because teachers have been stripped of all authority in the class room (and that's the fault of parents who shudder at the idea of a teacher disciplining their angel for being disrespectful disruptive etc).

There's plenty of money in the system - probably way more than is needed if truth be known - it just isn't spent wisely.

2. I have a Bachelors and Masters degee in Business Admin, and believe in free enterprise. That said, situations like Enron and WorldCom have got to be addressed.

Well then you should know that the free market will take care of the enron's and worldcom's just fine. Eventually the crooks get caught and when that happens investors go away and get smarter for the next time. Darwin wins.

Also, I do believe that our govt has become too beholden to their corporate backers, no matter which party is in office.

Agreed

Corporations are legal entities in our nation, but their disproportionate influence on our elected leaders has got to stop.

Again - agreed. But how do you plan to stop it? Gonna limit campaign contributions to political candidates are you? That's the only way you could stop corporate influence you know - make the pols take their hands out of the corporate wallets. OH! Wait - can't do that - there's that pesky 1st Amendment getting in the way. Hmmmm.... Guess you could just repeal it.

3. I think that the money currently spent on education needs to be better allocated, and that we probably need more funding as well. Our national party website discusses cost-effective ways to do this.

Better allocated - YES. More funding - NO! See above.

4. Children and adults go hungry in this country every day, and not merely due to neglect. The facts are very clear on this, like it or not. I can't speak for the big cities, but in the Mississippi Delta some folks still use outhouses, and their children depend on the schools for their daily meals.

Your Point?

Life's a bitch and Darwin always wins. You want to give those folks a helping hand then take the money out of your wallet and give it to 'em. But don't take it out of mine. Taxes to support welfare is theft - I'd sooner get mugged on the street - at least then I'd have a chance to fight back and keep my money.

5. I think Mr. Nader's general ideas are good, environmental conservation is more and more vital each year. That's what I meant, he just takes the ideas too far.

Nader's a kook. Like Captain Queeg of the fictional USS Caine he just can't give up the glory days of finding out who stole the strawberries. Any party that supports Nader is no party at all in my mind.

6. I don't think corporations are evil, but their purpose is to maximize shareholder wealth and that does not always mean good things for society. We need to encourage corporations to stay in the US, to be scrupulously honest in their bookkeeping, and to be a good member of society.

Well you did get the maximize shareholder wealth part right - that's their job. It's how they get folks to invest and create new wealth.

Corporations don't exist for the good of society they exist for the good of the shareholders. They provide products that people want. If enough people want them they make a profit (not a dirty word) and stay in business. If not then DARWIN WINS! Most of the time what's good for corporations is also good for society though few people have the smarts or vision to recognize that.

As for staying in the US - Well Mr. MBA (and you're not the only one here with one of those) as you said a Corp is in business to maximize shareholder wealth. They're gonna go where their costs to produce and tax burdens are the lowest possible in order to maximize shareholder wealth (notice I didn't say profit - they aren't the same thing all the time).

You want corporations to stay in the US - lower corporate taxes and eliminate all the BS regulations they labor under. Worried about worker safety, pay, etc. Don't. The free market will take care of that for you.

As to corporations being good members of society most are now. The few that aren't generally don't last long or fill a need that no one is willing to do with out.

Of course you can force corporations to be good members of society. Just have the government nationalize 'em all. Of course history tells us how well that usually works out and gives a name to it too - SOCIALISM!

Socialism is in no way part of our party, but there are going to have be solutions found for the problems discussed above, and those solutions may involve the govt. I think Mr. Nader goes too far, but that our current national environmental policies are not going to cut it long term. We have to balance free enterprise with the future we will leave to our kids.

Socialism is all you've spouted so far. And that makes it very offensive to me as a Veteran for you and your ilk to call your party the Veteran's party.

I used to be as strict a Libertarian as ya'll seem to be, but the complexities of the problems we face makes unbendable positions hard to defend. But, I too have a few issues on which I don't compromise the most relevant of which is the 2nd Amendment. If our nation is to remain one nation, we must pick and choose the issues for which we will fall on our sword, every issue can't be a struggle to the bitter end.

Good luck to your party and its impractical pie in the sky notions. Though I won't ever support it third parties are always a healthy way to force change on the two mainstream ones. So put the pedal to the metal and let 'er rip. Should be an interesting show.

 

[rock jock]

The Veteran's Party doesn't seem to offer me anything that the LP doesn't.

And, with any luck they will be just as successful.

 

[Jammer Six]

The more I think about it the more I believe you are right, because if me simply saying a right is "God-given" offends you then that may just be a gulf that cannot be crossed.

Works for me. If removing those words offends you, there's no question that that gulf can't be crossed.

I can no more not acknowledge the hand of God in all things than I can vote communist, Truth is Truth

And since I'll never vote to support the recognition of an imaginary friend, I'm going to have to stick to the Libertarians.

I like their truth better.

Officers...

 

[MajMikeW]

werewolf

werewolf

I used to think a lot like you, and I still agree with much that you said, in principle. However, all that I have learned shows me the flaws in those principles, flaws that a condensed society such as we have today must address in some way.

The free market theory is awesome, but when it meets reality problems are exposed. Should govt have bothered with child labor laws? What about federal accounting standards?

Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil. - Mary Wollstonecraft

I wish the world could be like your vision of it, I really do. I'm a small town boy from Mississippi and don't understand a lot of what metropolitan society considers normal or acceptable (like gun control). But I know enough about men to know that without some restraint from govt the results would be the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

MajMike