Party Registration Dilemma

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ArmedBear

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Okay, I'm currently registered Libertarian. I was a member of the party, but my membership lapsed. I might renew.

I am clearly libertarian in the way I think. I like Libertarians. At least the local members are great, very intelligent, mostly non-wacko.

I do have some disagreement with the Libertarians' "blame America first" reaction to Jihadism, which has been around for a millenium longer than the US has. And I think that the notion of trading freely with all nations while ignoring what goes on inside their borders is unrealistic and actually counter to libertarian values. At some point, we can hardly claim to be pro-liberty if we support "letting the free market decide" that cheap goods made by political prisoners who are tortured and forced to work are the best deal. I guess I do believe that Libertarian foreign policy platforms are simplistic at best, and wrong at worst. Though I am in favor of a free market, the realities of nation-states and their rulers sometimes makes it impossible for us to unilaterally create a free market, just like geopolitical realities make unilateral disarmament a stupid way to end war.

Anyway, I'm considering re-registering Republican.

"WHY?!?" you might ask.

Here's why.

1. The GOP has done a LOT for RKBA in the past 10 years. If you don't think so, you don't understand politics. Letting the AWB sunset was a good political move. And a Democrat majority would have passed a permanent renewal; you know it and I know it. Any Libertarian vote that caused a seat to go to a Democrat would have pushed us a bit closer to that. Libertarians get 1-2% of the vote in a good year, as we have for 35 years. There's just no way, right now, that Libertarians are doing ANYTHING for RKBA, since they're not in national office and they're not GOING to be in office any time soon.

2. The GOP has some SERIOUS problems. But putting a lot of effort into a third party isn't solving them. Think about what activists, putting as much effort as they do into, say, the Libertarian and Constitution parties, into grass-roots efforts within the GOP, could accomplish!

3. John Bolton. The best thing G W Bush has ever done. If Kerry were in office, we'd be sucking up to Kofi right now, and losing our freedoms and our resources.

4. The Democrats are genuinely dangerous. Their leadership (e.g. Pelosi) is overtly Marxist, and/or Authoritarian (e.g. Feinstein). The entire party has been seduced by anti-human environmental pseudo-religion, and this poses a serious threat to our modern world, and to the US and all its residents in particular. The Dems have become a dangerous anti-individual, anti-property party that actively opposes nearly all that the Libertarians value, and the Democrats are a major party. This means they can actually get the power to implement their plans whereas the Libertarians don't have the power to oppose them.

5. The GOP, for all its problems, is philosophically focused on rights and responsibilities of individuals rather than collectivist worldviews. This means that it is a lot closer to Libertarian thinking than the Democrats can possibly be right now.

6. We have a 2-party system, as we always have had. New parties can sometimes take the place of one of the two, and new groups can sometimes direct the platforms of existing parties, but there won't be a three-party system in the US in the near future. And I won't live forever, so I want my freedom NOW, not a life under authoritarian rule that might some day lead to a revolution and some pie-in-the-sky free society. Ain't gonna happen, IMO. I don't think we really want it to happen; that's why we have politics rather than violence in this country. We want change, peacefully, and I want that change to move in the libertarian direction as much as possible, even if just one bit at a time.

Thoughts?

(BTW I'm not at all interested in abortion because I support individual women's rights over their own bodies instead of government power, no matter what I think of abortion; I think that threats of theocracy are really overblown; I don't oppose gay marriage, but I think it's a political diversion of almost no real importance, like flag burning -- so please forget these issues. They're being used to divert our attention from the important stuff.)
 
I really want to sympathize with the Libertarian party but many of the members that I have had personal contact with are way too radical and frankly, nuts.
 
I recommend that regardless of what party you register for, you join a party. It is important to be associated, and if you join one of the two major parties, you can have some extra say in what candidate get into office (primaries). If you do join the Republican Party, remember that nobody will put a gun to your head if you choose to vote for a Liberterian or even a Democrat candidate. I am a proud Republican, and I have no intentions of voting for our Governor (Rell R-CT), unless there is no Concerned Citizens (our local chapter of the Constitution Party) or Liberterian candidate. Usually, I do vote Republican BTW,but I am not glued. I would recommend joining the Republican party- it will help keep us going in the right direction.
 
I'm fairly libertarian in my thinking, but the last time I registered it was as a Republican -- I wanted to have some say in the primaries.

Having said that, I think "they hate us for our freedoms" is a bit more simplistic than "they hate us for the way we've treated everyone in their region over the last hundred years." Note that we're the dominant player in world politics right now, and I think we're taking some heat for the past actions of various colonial European powers in addition to what we've personally "accomplished" over there.
 
Derek, here's something for you to read:

http://instapundit.com/archives/029725.php

IMO, they don't hate us for our freedoms as Bush said, and they don't hate us for the actions of France, Britain, et al 100 years ago, as the academic left, many Democrats and Libertarians say. BOTH notions are ignorant, perhaps wilfully ignorant.

They may not hate us at all. One need not "hate" someone to want to defeat them.

"They" wish to bring us down because we, more than anyone else, stand in the way of the great Jihad. Check out the link and the whole linked article.

BTW I thought at the time that Bush's post-9/11 speech was bunk. But I shudder to think what Gore's reaction might have been. Does no one remember how Clinton dealt with such threats?

One need not support Bush in order to admit that the alternative candidates were worse, perhaps would have been far worse if elected.
 
I'm registered R and want to be that way for the primaries. i believe that one of our biggist problems in domestic politics is RINOs -- and Ohio has more than its share. I want to vote against RINOs (like DeWine) now without de facto voting for a Dem later.
 
Armed Bear:

I RESIGNED the Libertarian party for reasons similiar to yours, and then some.

I then registered as a Republican, for most of the same reasons.

My premise is that:

-The greatest long term threat to the freedom and Liberty of the Republic is the collectivoLeftist infestation of the Democratic party. They must be electorally eviscerated until they purge themselves of their ill influence, and return to the fold as something recognizably American, proceeding from a Lockean premise.

-The GOP is imperfect, and must be worked from within towards the goal of supporting liberty oriented candidates, and in the suppression/censure/expulsion of the party's dark authoritarians.

-Away teams must be dispatched to salvage whatever is sane and of use in third party land.
 
ArmedBear:

There are always going to be those elements, just like we've got our "nuke 'em all" contingent, and those that believe death is a suitable punishment for consentual sodomy.

I don't think there would be many people who'd give that line of thinking a second thought if they weren't living destitute, under totalitarian rule, with no way out. Societies seem to turn religious in a scary way when they have no control over the oppression they see in everyday lives. What's that saying -- "there are no athiests in foxholes"? ;)

Anyway, my (I guess libertarian) take on the middle east problem is "stop meddling, and they'll cease caring about us." But that's enough of a thread hijack, I think. :D
 
That's not a hijack at all, Derek. I LOVE what I'm getting back in this thread. Thanks, everyone, and keep it coming!

I might agree fully with you that "leave them alone and they'll leave us alone" might be the best policy, except when I consider what I also mentioned about free trade.

See, we're going to buy petroleum from these countries. And Libertarian free trade policy would be all for dropping any regulation that may now exist, so we might buy even more, if the price is right.

But these countries are generally not democratic in any way. That means that money that goes to the nation-state actually goes straight to the pockets of people like Saddam Hussein and the Sauds. They then use that money to pay for more efficient oppression, larger armies, more secret police, etc. So "free trade" automatically means that we will be doing things that make the powerless people in these country into the sort of desparate zealots to which you refer. We might not be sending dictators guns, but we'd be sending them the money to buy the guns that they will then use on their people. And the people will take note, and they will be pissed off.

That, in a nutshell, is why I think the anarcho-capitalist trade policies of the LP would not accomplish the sort of world peace that the LP promises. And I don't think there's an easy answer, apart from doing what we can to democratize Arabia. But doing that violates another Libertarian principle of military non-intervention.

I don't know what the comprehensive foreign policy answer is, truly, but I do think that you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Isolationism can work without world trade, but with world trade may come the reality that isolationism is not a viable option. See WW II for a rather deadly example.
 
????? :confused:

How can one's party affiliation "lapse"? You have to pay dues to belong to the Libertarian party? I have always been unaffiliated, but my parents both belonged to major parties and I never heard either of them ever mention having to "renew" their registration.

I understand the position of those who advocate belonging to one of the two major parties. I happen to disagree. IMHO the two-party system is broken. The parties do not represent the people, they represent the politicians and the big money interests. I refuse to affiliate myself with either of them because to do so would suggest that I feel the party I register with has legitimacy. They do not.

I wish more people would renounce party affiliation and make it clear to the career politicians that "business as usual" has to end. This goes hand-in-hand with my opinion and belief that we must always vote against incumbents, for the simple reason that THEY won't enact term limits, so it is up to us to impose them.
 
Hawkmoon-

Party membership is different from the box you check off on your voter registration form. I was a member of the Libertarian Party; I paid dues just like I pay dues to any other club or similar organization. I had a membership card; I got a newsletter; I got discounted tickets to conventions.

That's how being active in politics works in the USA. Non-affiliated voters, and non-party-members for that matter, are consumers; both parties -- the "producers" of politics -- just try to sell what they have to them.

I don't want to simply be a consumer and bitch every 2-4 years about the candidates "they" are letting us vote for. I want to be more involved in getting candidates out there.

WRT voting against incumbents, etc., I disagree. It's because my parents, as small children, lived under the rule of the Third Reich. See, sometimes, when you vote against the incumbent, the other guy is Hitler. Literally. (Hopefully I can avoid Godwin's Law because I am NOT speaking metaphorically. :p )
 
he GOP, for all its problems, is philosophically focused on rights and responsibilities of individuals rather than collectivist worldviews. This means that it is a lot closer to Libertarian thinking than the Democrats can possibly be right now.
I don't know that I could call a party that fights against gay marriage or for the patriot act focused on the rights of individuals. Ymmv.
 
Yeah, I'd say lately Republicans look like statists of the religious hawk variety. Democrats look like statists of the socialistic protect-people-from-sharp-corners variety.

I want a non-statist of the "we'll-be-happy-to-leave-you-the-hell-alone variety," but they're few and far between. :(
 
I don't know that I could call a party that fights against gay marriage or for the patriot act focused on the rights of individuals. Ymmv.

If I can, I would like to attempt to defend that, to some extent:)

Gay Marriage: Homosexual individuals do cuurently have the same ability to get married in all 50 states that heterosexual people have. Any man can marry any woman regardless of their sexual orientation. Less I digress... Maybe 'gay marriage' isn't the best description.

Patriot Act- Alright, I'll conceed. Both major parties support this. I do to some extent as well, believing it is necesary to fight terrorism. We should do more to protect American Citizens' civil liberties. However I do not believe those should be extended to aliens, particularly non-immigrant aliens. I do oppose national ID's as well.

Sorry to thread-jack:eek:
 
I never, ever, ever vote for a Democrat, even if they are pro 2A. Here's why. Even if a specific politician is pro 2A, he/she still adds another seat toward a majority in whatever body they reside. Any time the dems have a majority, we see more gun control laws.
 
Register for the dominant party in your state. If Democrats always win, you want to be super active during the Democrat primary. If Republicans always win, you want to be mister republican party activist. If the dominant party turns out a turd, you can still vote for the other guy on the chance that he might win. Voting during the weak-party primary seems like a waste of time since your vote will generally be mooted during the general election.

Thats why libertarians should always belong to a political party. Getting to vote in primaries is like getting to vote multiple times during an election.
 
Be like a lot of people and don't register with any one party. There are times that a Democrat is better than the Republican alternative.

It's very important to be part of the primaries. You have to register to do that. Even if you feel independent, surely you will slightly favor one of the two major parties and would prefer to be part of the inevitable outcome. Third parties have primaries too, but that's just a side show. The best way for a third party to emerge is for a major party to collapse, which won't be by 1 or 2 percentage points nibbling around the edges.
 
I really want to sympathize with the Libertarian party but many of the members that I have had personal contact with are way too radical and frankly, nuts.

lol, it must feel a lot safer being a Republican and knowing you'll have the ever reasonable, grounded and even tempered voice of Pat Robertson on the TV speaking for you.

:rolleyes:

There are wack-Os attached to everything.
 
I'm a Republican, but I've considered joining a third party like the Libertarian party or the Constitution party. However, I've come to the conclusion that for the presidential election, it really is pointless to vote a third party. Realistically, there really is no chance for a third party to be elected, unless there was a social or political revolution, or an act of God.
 
lol, it must feel a lot safer being a Republican and knowing you'll have the ever reasonable, grounded and even tempered voice of Pat Robertson on the TV speaking for you.

Stawman. Who takes pride in what Pat Robertson has to say? Should they be taken seriously? Are they representative? Granted, anyone preoccupied with religion in politics will sound pretty scary. Is a party represented by its fringes, people aligned for questionable reasons? There will be a lot of diversity if there are only two parties that really mean anything. The real fight and the big numbers are near the middle. The polarity is "what's mine is mine" versus "what's yours is mine", "I have" versus "I need", "leave me alone" versus "take care of me".
 
I am still a registered Republican, but until the neo-conservative element of the party is out of power, I won't be voting for any of them. I believe the neo-conservative movement in the Republican party is more dangerous to America than the leftist-socialist component ofthe Democratic Party.

Also, when I look at the accomplishments of the Republican party in the last 8 years, I am disgusted. The minor gains that have been main in the area of RKBA are overshadowed by bad legislation passed in other areas.

Medicare Reform (ie, the drug benefit for old people who didn't prepare),
McCain Feingold (ie, the first amendment revocation law),
Patriot Act,
No Child Left Behind,
and the failure of the government to control the invasion from Mexico,

are all reasons I won't be voting Repubican again anytime soon.

The Republican party should stand for small, fiscally conservative, non-intrusive government. None of the things I have listed above should come from a party that stands for those ideals.
 
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