PARA LDA - discharged when loading - opinions wanted

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RAGGED

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I had a extremely scary thing happen to me last night and I thank the lord that nothing happened due to proper gun handling, but at any rate I would like to get some feedback of what may have caused this. I had just loaded a magazine for my Para LDA Carry (45), I had inserted the magazine, pulled the slide back and then released it, like I have done many times before, that’s when it happened, the round it picked up went off.

I am very strict when it comes to proper gun handling and my finger was absolutely nowhere near trigger, the pistol was pointed at the ground, to be honest I’m not ever sure if you can pull the trigger on the LDA unless its forward but that’s besides the point as this round went off shortly after the slide picked up the round. I found the empty casing and its clear the round was only chambered 1/3 of the way when it discharged (extreme bulge)

This pistol has never given me issues in the 5-700 rounds I have ran thru it. The ammo was Winchester FMJ (WWB), the same ammo I’ve used in it the entire time I’ve owned it. The primer is extremely flattened and has a large gapping half moon hole on the side of it. Later this evening I will post pictures of the spent case as well as the primer.

This really upsets me. I no longer trust this pistol or that ammunition and I believe I have serious permanent hearing damage, it’s been 12 hours and things are still extremely muffled. Has anyone heard of this before and if so should I be looking at the firearm or the ammunition as the culprit?

Thank you for your input.
 
Send it to Para Ordnance. Or at least give them a call.

Is your firing pin sticking out of the slide through it's hole on the breechface?
 
No it is not, the pistol appears to be in normal condition.

But I should note it sure looks like the pin went right thru the primer.
 
A 1911 won't feed from the magazine with a protruding firing pin.
It's a designed in fail-safe feature.

I have heard of this happening when someone dropped a round "almost" in the chamber and the primer got hit by the extractor.

Hard to envision a gun problem that could cause it when feeding from the magazine.
So, I would suspect a high or crooked / smashed primer on the round that went off.
IE: Defective ammo.

It would help if you can post a good picture of the case showing the blown primer in detail.

rc
 
I had a similar event with a Colt Series '70 around 1976 or so. Had a gunsmith check the gun and he found nothing wrong. Theory is maybe the primer was sensitive and went bang with little provocation. Had you loaded and unloaded the same round numerous times? That's what I was in the habit of doing until this happened and I learned that this can "sensitize" the primer. Never happened again.
 
I don't know anything about those LDA guns or how they can close with the hammer down and still be considered as 1911's.

They're odd voodoo.

"Sensitive primers" ..............I think I've heard everything now!
 
Will do on the pics, I just forgot the case at home. I did handle the round just before putting it in the magazine and if the primer was protruding is was very minimal, I would have noticed anything grossly out of spec but I could see even a minimal amount being extremely dangerous, that 3" pistol has a pretty heavy spring, when you release it the slide goes forward with vigor.

The round had next to zero handling, it came straight from the cardboard box to a plastic ammo container, the reloading type with individual compartments for each round, after that it sat in the safe, that box never left the safe until I opened it to take a few out last night.
 
Well after a little looking I believe I found the issue, I have found that for some reason firing pin is in fact protruding and rigid, it’s a very dangerous condition, I’m deeply disturbed that this is even possible with a modern firearm, it is safe to say I will be selling this pistol once it is repaired.




Open and empty, firing pin is out and rigid



close up of the pin, you can even see the markings from the case, and for the record this gun was very clean, most of that is from the round being fire out of battery.



You can see the round did chamber just over half way




The large hole where the pin ripped thru the primer



better view of the bulge, thank the lord it held or i may have had shrapnel flying



very scary having this let go in my garage
 
I'm still not sure how the slide pushed a round out of the magazine and it slid up the breach-face with the firing pin sticking out!

That's the part I would be investigating, starting with:
The magazine feed lips.
Cracked magazine body?
Etc?

rc
 
the mags are perfect, I'm shocked it didn’t go off the moment it hit the round, but its safe to say it did happen and I'm not about to try and replicate exactly how it happened. :mad:

Maybe I’ll try a dummy round in it later and see how it could have done this.
 
Ragged - hope your hearing recovers, and thanks for posting.

This is an awesome and scary reminder of the importance of proper handling.

As your close encounter shows, it can make the difference between life and death!!
 
Thanks PJ, nothing like a 3" 45 going off.... in your garage.... next to a safe... 18 hours and still a ringin, the odd part is if I scratch my head its really loud! Its really the oddest feeling.....
 
I have SEEN a Colt with the firing pin stuck protruding on the Series 80 plunger. Paras have a similar firing pin obstruction and this one apparently hung up the same way.

I have READ that short barrelled 1911 mutants are more subject to getting rounds feeding out ahead of the extractor and operating in snap-over mode.

It looks to me like it took two unrelated malfunctions happening at once to cause a genuine out of battery firing. I would take the matter up with P.O.
 
And to think, I choose the LDA because I thought it might be a wee bit safer than the std SA design for use as a carry weapon

Thanks for the info Jim, I only have a few 1911's and do not know a whole lot about the differences between them
 
Man I'm just glad you're alright (except for the hearing) - so much for "it can't close the slide with a protruding firing pin safety design feature" theory. Yeah, I'd say you need a good gunsmith.
 
so much for "it can't close the slide with a protruding firing pin safety design feature" theory.
Click to expand...
From the bulge, I presume that it DIDN'T close the slide completely.

so much for "it can't close the slide with a protruding firing pin safety design feature" theory.
Click to expand...
rcmodel is absolutely correct - a proper magazine that controlled the round until it was fully engaged by the extractor could not have chambered this round. If the pistol chambered a round with the firing pin already protruded (it may have broken as the slide went forward), it could only have done so via a defective magazine.
 
Wow. Glad you are okay and hope your hearing clears up.

So, from what I have gathered so far; If the round had fed properly it would have jammed on the feedramp and you would have noticed the FP problem. If the series 80 FP safety hadn't jammed the firing pin forward the round would have fed and you would have holstered and been on your way.

However, because you had both malfunctions the round fired out of battery. I'd be very interested to know if the safety plunger is broken or something else. How is it holding the FP solid in the breach face?
 
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Bet this gun push feeds a lot and the firing pin protrusion finally got someones attention. Tuner...you need to do a refresher tutorial on controlled feed I guess.
Joe
 
Why is the lettering on the case blue?

Note that the FP could be jammed now, but maybe was not before this incident.

Why is the center of case head more flattened than the outside (as shown by flattened lettering)?

I am surprised to see outline of extractor hole on the case head. I have only seen that on very high pressure reloads. I assume the case was smashed up against the bolt face during ignition, but pressures should have been lower than normal then because of expanded case walls, and because the bullet had further to travel to the lands (more volume) since the the pistol was not fully in battery.
 
I for the life of me can not figure out how it happened, I took an empty case and put it in the mag, there is no way the mag malfunctioned, its solid as can be, nothing is getting by those lips, but like RC said it can not feed with the firing pin like it is, even with the empty case pushed as far forward as possible it can not rise to the occasion so to say, this leads me to believe it could not have been sticking out (at least that much) when I released the slide. Its got me puzzled. I guess there is the chance when I pointed down a round slid somewhat forward but it sure feels like the mag has plenty of tension, but i did only load it with 4 rounds and the Para mags to seem to have lighter springs than some of my other 1911's... Scary stuff, i would tear into it and find what’s broke but i think preserving its currant state of malfunction is important right now.

Dave P, by looking at the primer i think its very clear the fin was out and rigid when ignition took place, I don’t know about you but I've never seen a firing pin burrow into a primer like that. Also the lettering is more of a black color, not blue, I think its just the lighting.
 
Pressure of the recoiling case caused the primer to be pierced by the firing pin.

Note the extractor cut imprint on the case head were it slammed back against the breach-face at very high speed!

The force that marked the case head like that also drove the firing pin through the primer.

rc
 
Once again, muzzle safety is shown to be the most important safety. Nice photos to accompany your story for analysis.
 
So are you going to decap/resize/reload that cartridge case? ;)

Just kidding, glad you came through unscathed (except for the ringing in the ears). A most unusual incident - hope you never have another!
 
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