Patches, Wads, or Gobs of Bore Butter?

[Steve Swartz]

Well, I have read some threads and tried to my homework on this but have to throw my ignorant self on the mercy of the assembled:

Pros and Cons of

Patch under ball? If so, wet or dry?
Wad under ball?
Gobs of Bore Butter on top of ball?

All/None of the Above?

This is primarily pistol (revolver or single shot), and does it/when does it make a difference?

Are the issues accuracy/consistency or just safety (chain fire)?

Also . . . . this while notion of "caliber" is driving me nuts (.36 caliber = anything from .300 to .375 apparently?!?)

TIA

 

[pohill]

I'm not sure how experienced you are with black powder - this might be too basic:
In my revolvers, .36 caliber and .44 caliber, I now put a lube pill made of beeswax, paraffin and some secret ingredients UNDER the ball, over the powder. The pills keep the barrel cleaner and prevent sparks from sneaking around the ball and causing a chainfire (chainfires can occur at the ball end or the cap end of the cylinder - which is more common is debatable).
I have tried the lube pills OVER the ball, but they work the best under the ball.
Also, I've used Bore Butter and Crisco over the ball. They work but are messy.
You would not use a patch of any kind in a revolver. In my pistol (single-shot, Kentucky .44 caliber) I seat the ball over a lubed patch and ram it down.
Many shooters use lubed felt wads and swear by them - I've never tried them.
I won't try to answer the caliber question 'cause I'm puzzled by it, too.

 

[Tommygunn]

Revolvers that shoot .36 caliber -- also refered to as "navy caliber," typically use either .375" or .380" balls. The instructions with the revolver should tell you. They will never vary to the point of being .300", but there are balls available for .31 caliber revolvers, but they will not work in .36 caliber revolvers.
In any case, when you use the plunger to shove the ball in the chamber, the act should shave a small ring of lead from the ball. If this isn't happening, the ball is too loose and when you fire the gun, recoil could cause the other balls to jolt forward, and possibly obstruct the cylinder when you try to cock the revolver.
The use of "bore butter," crisco, or wonder wads keeps the fouling soft, which simplifies cleaning, but it also is a matter of safety, due to the fact that it helps prevent chain-fires. I don't think it really affects accuracy too much.

 

[hildo]

Butter lubrication

My .44 Dragoon is loaded with regular blackpowder, then ball, then butter on top of ball.
I use regular butter, the hard white kind in which food is fried. Works well and is low cost. You may want to mix this with beeswax to keep it from melting in very warm weather but personally have not found it necessary. Since my .457 balls are quite tight, shaving off a nice lead ring when ramming them down in the cylinder, I thought it would be safe to give it a go without the butter.
After 24 shots the revolver finally seized up because of blackpowder fowling and further shooting was not possible. I was surprised to see the barrel becoming much hotter as well, almost to hot for me to touch.
The butter keeps the blackpowder residue soft, the barrel cool and the additional lubrication keeps the gun working just fine for a longer period. Accuracy I don't know since I'm not much a good shot anyway. Butter on top is messy, but I rub it into my leather pants to help keep them watertight. If you don't ride a motorcycle, lubrication below the bullet would be cleaner and probably work just as well... but you would not be able to give the gun a full powder load

 

[pohill]

caliber

I have revolvers that take a .375 ball but a .380 is too big and puts alot of strain and stress on the loading lever. And the .375 ball is too small in my revolvers that take the .380. My .44s take .454 - .451s are too small, .457s too big.
Also, keep in mind that some guns have chamferred (beveled) chamber mouths - I have one that shaves very little, if any, lead.
Also, with lube pills under the ball, full loads are no problem.

 

[Steve Swartz]

Great ideas!

I appreciate this because the instructions that came with my .44 revolver (Pietta; 1858 New Army) were (shall we say) somewhat sparse. To answer the question of experience, I have plenty of modern cartridge smokeless trigger time (including reloading for 1,000 yard rifle, Bullseye pistol etc.) but zip zero zilch nada with charcoal burners.

A bunch of wads came with my Cabelas "Starter Kit," but the instructions said to just put a gob of bore butter over the loaded, seated ball. So that's what I've been doing. And I do get a little lead shaving when loading. I'm using 25 grains of fffg and #10 caps.

The balls that came in the starter kit are 0.455" (with visible sprue and casting seam) and weigh about 144 grains. I also picked up (at my local gun store) some Hornady balls that appear to be swaged- look really smooth adn concentric- that are around 0.450 (box says 0.451) and weight about 138 gr.

Then I note in my Midway etc. catalogue that under "44 calibre" balls and molds the sizes range across a pretty wide spectrum.

I only need or expect "fair" accuracy out of the revolver, but would like to squeeze as much performance out of it as could reasonably be expected.

What things shouold I worry about- and what things are negligable?

1) I notice that #11 caps seem to be more prevalent than #10- what's the difference?

2) How could I figure out (slug the barrel then . . . ?) the right ball size?

3) Assume swaged better than cast? But I would eventually like to cast my own balls.

4) Charge size- huge issue for working up target loads in cartridge world- a big issue here?

5) Seating force- I have a doohickey for loading the cylinders out of the gun and could ram those babies home or just lightly touch the powder- or just seat "firmly" and not worry about it?

Thanks again for additional advice!

 

[hildo]

Cap & ball size

1) Put a percussion cap on the nipple and see of it fits correctly.
A too big cap wil stay loose and can fall off during firing. It is said chainfires could occur when caps fall off by fire entering the nipple, setting of charges that are not behind of the barrel.
A too small cap will not fit at all or will not seat correctly. If a cap is not seated correctly, all the way down, it may misfire on the first (or 2nd) time you pull the trigger.
If you can't find the perfect cap go to a slightly larger one and give it a squeeze before you install it. It is now oval and will clamp itself onto the nipple, preventing it from falling off.

2) Don't slug the barrel on a BP revolver. Just put a ball on top of the cylinder. If you can push it in with your finger it is too small. It should be a bit bigger than the actual bore of the chamber. You must be able to press the ball in with a liberate amount of force so it sits in there nice & tight. Lead balls of blackpowder revolvers should be made of soft (roof) lead. No problem since bullet velocity is relatively low. The soft lead makes it easy to ram the slightly oversize ball down.
In a muzzleloading pistol or musket the ball should be smaller than the bore, use a patch for a nice tight fit. You should be able to push the ball all the way down without too much force.

3) I cast my own from roof lead in a pot on a woodfire in the backyard. It's fun, easy, cheap and have not had any problem with them. If I can cast a round ball, anybody can.

4) Endless

5) Seat the ball onto the power. I use the gun loading levers and put a little muscle on it to compress it. You may compress real blackpowder upto 10% or something I think. Don't know about the other modern stuff, have never used it. Triple 7 is not be compressed I hear. Never(!) leave airspace between the bullet and the powder on any BP gun, everybody says it is dangerous and I will not try to proove them wrong.

 

[pohill]

When I had my Uberti 1858 Remington .44, I used .454 balls and maybe 30 grs of black powder.
I bought a Lee Electric Melter (bottom pour) and buy plumbers lead at the hardware store for about $7.50 for 5 lbs. I cast (casted?) about 230 .380 balls the other day in about an hour out of half of the lead cake. Even the non-perfect ones get shot downrange.
.451 should work in your Remington, but I'd go with the .454. Some shooters use .457 in that revolver. If the ball is too small, a spark might get buy and cause a chinfire.
#11 caps are bigger than #10. #10 might fit at first, but after shooting, fouling builds up on the nipples and the #10s won't fit. According to an old Colt pamphlet I have, it's better to use caps that are slightly larger and pinch them at the bottom for a better fit.
You want to press the ball onto the powder - do not leave a dead air space between powder and ball.
If a cap falls off an unfired cylinder during shooting, stop and cap it before shooting again (that's an open invitation for a spark).
Crisco, Bore Butter both work, but I now use lube pills made by Junk Yard Dog (aka Rifle). I can get his email for you unless he pops in.

 

[mec]

Your pietta should work well with .375 balls-even the ones from hornady which are sometimes undersized and often lopsided. Try those in a Uberti which is a couple of thousanths bigger in the chamber and you will sometimes pull the ball out stuck to the ball seater. Other times, they will pull from recoil. Uberti's generally need either Speer 375s or .380" from dixie or a lee mould.

If the ball fits tightly in the chamber, there should be no chain fires from the front end. I've used crisco and bore butter and another commercial concoction over the ball and the bore seems to fill with hard fouling equally fast. With the overball lubricant, the revolver gets nastier and siezes up quicker than with plain balls. With either method, I find it necessary to swab the bore after every five to six shots to maintain accuracy.

Stiff felt wads ( wonderwads are too fluffy for the purpose) under the ball keep the bore clean for long shooting sessions. the Maine Shooting Supply lubricated wads and the bigiron wads with gatofeo lube work equally well.